Should I simply ignore it if authors assume that I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
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I received a response about a manuscript I reviewed earlier, and the authors write about the reviewer (i.e., me) and his concerns. As a woman, I'm not so keen on this.
Obviously this isn't intentionally insulting or anything like that---it's a minor blip. Nevertheless, it's a bit irksome, and the feminist in me is thinking that's not right; it's a microaggression (one of the everyday reminders that you don't belong here).
I could simply ignore it, but...
Question: Should I simply ignore it if authors assume that I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
There's no issues inside the manuscript: they thank the reviewers without using pronouns.
I'm particularly interested in if an editor would typically just groan and consider me a troublemaker for saying anything. And probably not pass the message on to the authors anyway.
peer-review gender
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up vote
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I received a response about a manuscript I reviewed earlier, and the authors write about the reviewer (i.e., me) and his concerns. As a woman, I'm not so keen on this.
Obviously this isn't intentionally insulting or anything like that---it's a minor blip. Nevertheless, it's a bit irksome, and the feminist in me is thinking that's not right; it's a microaggression (one of the everyday reminders that you don't belong here).
I could simply ignore it, but...
Question: Should I simply ignore it if authors assume that I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
There's no issues inside the manuscript: they thank the reviewers without using pronouns.
I'm particularly interested in if an editor would typically just groan and consider me a troublemaker for saying anything. And probably not pass the message on to the authors anyway.
peer-review gender
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
8
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
23
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
6
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
6
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
9
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday
 |Â
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up vote
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up vote
101
down vote
favorite
I received a response about a manuscript I reviewed earlier, and the authors write about the reviewer (i.e., me) and his concerns. As a woman, I'm not so keen on this.
Obviously this isn't intentionally insulting or anything like that---it's a minor blip. Nevertheless, it's a bit irksome, and the feminist in me is thinking that's not right; it's a microaggression (one of the everyday reminders that you don't belong here).
I could simply ignore it, but...
Question: Should I simply ignore it if authors assume that I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
There's no issues inside the manuscript: they thank the reviewers without using pronouns.
I'm particularly interested in if an editor would typically just groan and consider me a troublemaker for saying anything. And probably not pass the message on to the authors anyway.
peer-review gender
I received a response about a manuscript I reviewed earlier, and the authors write about the reviewer (i.e., me) and his concerns. As a woman, I'm not so keen on this.
Obviously this isn't intentionally insulting or anything like that---it's a minor blip. Nevertheless, it's a bit irksome, and the feminist in me is thinking that's not right; it's a microaggression (one of the everyday reminders that you don't belong here).
I could simply ignore it, but...
Question: Should I simply ignore it if authors assume that I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
There's no issues inside the manuscript: they thank the reviewers without using pronouns.
I'm particularly interested in if an editor would typically just groan and consider me a troublemaker for saying anything. And probably not pass the message on to the authors anyway.
peer-review gender
peer-review gender
edited 27 mins ago
Physics-Compute
26429
26429
asked Nov 2 at 7:13
Rebecca J. Stones
5,40342638
5,40342638
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
8
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
23
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
6
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
6
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
9
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday
 |Â
show 5 more comments
8
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
23
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
6
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
6
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
9
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday
8
8
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
23
23
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
6
6
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
6
6
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
9
9
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday
 |Â
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20 Answers
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As a reviewer, you are supposed to comment on academic value and scientific correctness of the manuscript.
As a woman, you feel unhappy about authors not guessing a correct pronoun for you and not using an appropriate gender-neutral pronoun.
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
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132
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I've found that some non-native English speakers use he for they, because that's how they'd do it in their mother tongue. Perhaps mention in your response (alongside any other language/style/etc.) issues:
Use they, rather than he, when the person's gender is unknown.
From chat:
Most native English speakers over a certain age were taught that the use of "they" to refer to a single person is incorrect (I continue to consider it incorrect).
Indeed, Strunk & White (The Elements of Style) write, "The use of he as a pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." They go on to add, "Currently, however, many writers find the use of the generic he or his to rename indefinite antecedents limiting or offensive."
But, "Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent â the word the pronoun refers to â is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed...thatâÂÂs nothing new." The OED "traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf."
See Wikipedia for a summary of guidance offered by style guides.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
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I don't know what an editor would think of it, but I think it's fine to mention your experience of receiving the review with the incorrect pronoun, as long as (like other answers have said) you allow for the possibility that it was a translation error etc.
e.g.
...authors have addressed all issues...
PS. I appreciate this is a relatively minor issue, but as a female reviewer it felt awkward to be referred to as 'he' by the authors.
It may make more sense to do this if there is some action you would like the editor to take, e.g.
Would you consider issuing guidelines to authors and reviewers that they should not presume the gender of their colleagues?
I don't agree that as a reviewer/any other professional role you should have to ignore the discouraging effect that adds up from these interactions.
New contributor
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
74
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Just drop it.
There are places where it's entirely reasonable for a scholar to start a discussion with a colleague about politically-charged, potentially-inflammatory topics such as microagressions, the appropriateness of using "he" as a genderless pronoun, unintended negative consequence of assuming a random member of a (presumably) male-dominated field is male, etc etc.
Reviewer-author communications are an especially poor choice of such a place.
- Revealing information about your identity or ideological beliefs threatens your anonymity;
- Peer reviews are intended to be objective, impartial, and impersonal, and political activism is decidedly off-topic in this context;
- The review process is already often stressful and tense, and criticism of the author's communication style is more-likely-than-usual to be interpreted as confrontational rather educational.
EDIT: to answer your specific question: as an associate editor, I would do nothing: I would not delete a sufficiently civil correction in the âÂÂcomments to authors,â nor would I relay anything to the authors if you put it in âÂÂprivate comments to the editor.â I would base all my decisions purely on the technical content of the review.
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
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@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
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@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
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I think you should let this one go.
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, there's always a chance you get it wrong. For example take most questions here on Academia.SE. If you have to refer to the question-asker in a situation where the gender is unknown, do you use 'he' or 'she'? It's either choose one and risk the possibility of getting it wrong, or write 'he or she' everywhere and end up with a very cumbersome answer (not to mention there's still a chance you get it wrong, since it's possible the question-asker identifies as transgender and prefers 'they').
That said, you could write something like this:
The authors have addressed all the issues, and I recommend this paper for publication.
PS: I'm female.
Writing something short like this is unlikely to make the editor groan, and he or she (or they) will probably pass your comment on to the authors. Editors don't usually censor reviewers - that only happens if there's something really inappropriate in the review, and this certainly isn't something inappropriate.
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The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
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That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
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The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
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If the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to a reviewer of unknown gender is problematic, this is so independently of the gender of the particular reviewer. A formulation like the following allows the reviewer to indicate this without revealing the reviewer's gender. In the reply to the authors the reviewer could write something like the following: Although the following comment is not relevant to my evaluation of the technical merit of the manuscript, the authors are advised that writing "his concerns" when referring to the concerns of an unknown reviewer presupposes that the reviewer is male, and that such an unfounded assumption could be bothersome to some reviewers.
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
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Question: Should I simply ignore authors assuming I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
I wouldn't. But - I'd try to say something that sounds dispassionate and not very accusative. Paraphrasing @Allure's suggestion, and assuming the authors get a copy of your recommendation, I'd write something like:
The authors have addressed all the issues; the paper is therefore recommended for publication.
PS: In their response to the review, the authors assumed the reviewer was male (e.g. in using references such as "his concerns"). The authors are reminded that is not necessarily the case.
add a comment |Â
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This has so far been mostly pointed out in the comments, but since comments get culled on topics like this, let me re-state it as an answer:
You don't know whether the authors are actually assuming your gender, or merely using a grammatical rule that you dislike, or aren't even fully conscious of their grammar (e.g., being non-native speakers).
Any response should take this into account: you don't want to assume what the authors are doing either. Thus, as several people on this thread have suggested (often for other reasons), it makes sense to be non-confrontative and not centralize the topic in your response.
The concept of a microaggression, too, does not have the empirical footing that it ought to have before I would start lobbing it as an accusation; google for "microaggression evidence" (e.g., Scott O. Lilienfeld, Microaggressions: Strong Claims, Inadequate Evidence). It isn't hard to draw some lines and define some things to be microaggressions, but the lines will depend heavily on who is drawing them, all while the actual damage done by crossing these lines is far from established. At the very least, the field isn't yet at the point where it can be applied with a resemblance of surety. Correspondingly, whatever you suggest should be a suggestion, not a correction.
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
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Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
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@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
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I think your question can be rephrased like this:
Should you do what you think it's right, or should you not, because it is likely to bite you back?
From my experience, nobody likes to be contradicted. Regardless of the context, or even the possible benefits that changing their minds can bring to them, people simply hate it to be contradicted. No matter whom (the journal, the authors, etc) you raise the issue, you'll be perceived as a pain in the ass, smaller or bigger, depending on how diplomatic you are.
What you need to do is to assess 2 things: what you lose and what you gain if you contradict someone. When assessing losses don't forget to include things like the spent effort (like posting this question here) and the virtual losses of debates which you may not have since the current loss will exclude you. When assessing gains don't forget to assess things like the societal impact.
In short: pick your battles. Only you can answer which are worth fighting for.
Edit: People keep misinterpreting my answer, which indicates that it is not clear enough. This is an attempt to clarify it.
Any answer that she should reply about the misuse of the pronoun or that she should let it go, is, in my opinion irresponsible. None of these 2 decisions can be reached simply by using the information provided in the answer. Such a decision should depend on many things, some of which are very personal details about the Original Poster (OP) (some examples are: is she currently involved in a lot of projects, is she currently over stressed, what is her relationship with the journal, does she care about it, can this affect her career, to what extent etc). Due to the nature of such details, I do not expect the OP to clarify the question, but to be helpful, I indicated a basic possible framework, which can help her reach a conclusion of her own.
Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter. Her life is not a democracy, and her personal circumstances are not the same as other people circumstances. It is fair to say what one would do in her position, it is not fair to tell her what to do, from a selfish interest to promote the interests of the answering person, disregarding the possible detrimental effects on the OP and her agenda.
To exemplify, in her position, I would let it go, because I do not think that using the male pronoun as a neutral gender pronoun means anything more than that. I do not think it is non-inclusive, but a mere artifact of how English evolved over thousands of years. Even if it might have had non-inclusive origins (a fact that I do not know of) thousands of years ago, it does not have a non-inclusive meaning now. Still, I personally use they when the gender is not clear, because I know it might bother other people, and whether they are right or wrong, I still don't want to annoy them or disrupt the flow of whatever we were doing.
Even if in OP's position, I would let it go, I do not think that this is the best decision for her to take, because the optimal solution depends on her circumstances, of which I am not, and I cannot be aware of. Simply said, I am not her, and I encourage you, the OP, to carefully look inwards for an answer.
I hope that with my edit, which in my opinion, is just rephrasing and exemplifying my original answer, the answer is more clear now.
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
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Apply Hanlon's razor with great liberty. It is most probably thoughtlessness in this case.
Peer-review is supposed to be a neutral and objective process, which involves the authors not communicating directly with the reviewers. Thus, the authors most probably had no idea you are a woman.
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
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7
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Firstly, I would check whether the journal has a policy or style guidelines to the effect of using gender-neutral pronouns, and whether the authors are native/non-native speakers of English. If, as you say, you have met one of the authors, you probably can make a strong guess at their nativity.
Case 1: Non-native speaker
Many (I would hazard a guess and say most) non-native speakers, myself included, have been taught never to use "they" in singular. In fact, we received corporal punishments at times if we did that. I learnt about this usage only after I relocated, and since then I've had to consciously convince myself to use it. Secondly, some of the non-English languages I speak, don't have or usually use gender-neutral pronouns. Although that is changing, they are far behind on the curve than English is. Hence, in the case of non-native speakers, I would probably give them a large benefit of doubt.
In this case, I suggest that you write to the editor separately. If they don't have a policy, request that they make one. If they do, explain your experience without naming names and request them to enforce it better.
Case 2: Native speaker
This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt. In this case, I would go with something like what @user100093 suggests in his answer, except I would modify the 'P. S.' section to say - "This is a relatively minor issue, but I would appreciate it if the authors don't assume the gender of the reviewers in their responses or communications". That way you have made your point without revealing your own gender, thus preserving anonymity.
As to whether the editor would actually pass on the message to the authors - who knows. But I don't believe that you will be immediately branded a troublemaker simply for making this point.
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
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5
down vote
I realized a long time ago that there's very little to be done in situations like these, because regardless of what you say, they can always resort to the grammar-defense: he is an accepted pronoun in the case of gender-neutrality, so in their eyes, they're just speaking English.
It doesn't cross their mind that, hey, negro is an accepted English word as well, so maybe it would be acceptable to use that word to describe black people too, no? Of course, today, that wouldn't fly: we live in a world where that word is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, all you can do is wait until people evolve enough until the consensus changes in favor of they, and not he, as the appropiate gender-neutral pronoun. There's definitely a clear trend towards they, so it might happen sooner than you think, but, really, waiting is all you can do. Making a fuss about this is going to make people become defensive (because personal egos are more important than deep societal issues) and that isn't going to end well for you.
New contributor
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
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up vote
3
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Well, to bring up a point that only seems to have been in comments...
If you don't care about your anonymity, or those whose anonymity partially depends on your anonymity, then go ahead and say you're a woman.
Else, you might have to say nothing, because by making a note about gendered pronouns, could be taken to hint that you are a woman, because a man is assumed to be less likely to bring the topic up.
Although, men do make such notes, as Mike says in his comment:
I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion.
Is this blind-bag reviewing, or not?
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
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up vote
2
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I'd like to write more or less what Dmitry Savostyanov wrote in his answer
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
but without the last part where he suggests that
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
I believe the professional thing to do in this context is just ignoring the pronoun, without any remark whatsoever.
It's curious that this question comes more or less at the same time as this one: How to react to a student proselytising during office hours? . I think the two settings are more similar than it seems at first sight. This is a context in which you should focus on content and stick to business, not try to convince the paper's author of his/her mistakes on a matter unrelated to the content of the paper, even if you believe it's for the greater good.
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
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up vote
1
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I encourage you to speak up. As you suggested, it's probably fair to treat it as a minor slip-up, indicating implicit bias rather than overt bias or intent to harm âÂÂàso your response should probably treat it as such. But nothing will improve if we stay silent.
By now, this page is so full of wrong-headed arguments against responding that I feel like it would be helpful to make a list and respond to each. I'll be paraphrasing, but I think these are fair reflections of various points made elsewhere on this page.
English evolved over centuries to arrive at gender-neutral "he". English evolved in societies that were generally swamps of overt misogyny. The fact that the patriarchy has always done it this way doesn't mean it should always be done this way. Nor do modern notions of equality expunge history of its inequalities. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that "all Men are created equal", women really did not have equal rights (not to mention non-white or even just non-rich men).
There's no good alternative. Many of the comments have refuted this pretty well. Pronouns can be avoided altogether by talking about "the reviewer" or similar. Alternatively, singular "they" is actually deemed acceptable by many authorities, and will get the point across in any case.
The authors might have a different first language where default-masculine is totally standard throughout many of their language structures. That's fine, but now they're communicating in English âÂÂàand in a professional setting.
But the authors weren't even assuming your gender. That doesn't matter; it's still problematic to use "he". While ethicists will talk about intent being important for deciding whether or not an action is ethical, there are also considerations about reckless disregard for the consequences. Reckless homicide is still homicide. If they offended you by their reckless and unnecessary use of a masculine pronoun (minor though the offense may be), it was still offensive.
Not everyone can agree that what they did was problematic. That's true, just as not everyone can agree that it wasn't problematic. We fight for our own principles. If we only stood up on unanimous decisions, we would never stand up âÂÂàand there would be no point anyway.
It's too minor to bother with. As you said, it's really about your status as a full and equal member of your community âÂÂàwhich is not minor. You deserve respect.
Don't start trouble. You're not the one who started it.
An academic review isn't the appropriate venue to introduce your feelings or politics. Again, you didn't start this; the authors are the ones who acted unprofessionally by introducing some imagined gender. They communicated poorly, and it is absolutely a reviewer's job to suggest improvements and to act as the arbiter of standards in the community. Suppose they had said something that was clearly intentionally and extremely racist. Would it still be inappropriate to address the matter?
You'll harm your professional relationships. This is anonymous review. The editor you're dealing with is the only person who will know who you are, and in my experience they are professionals who understand that they need to keep things professional. The authors won't know who you are, and might just become more conscientious in their treatment of women in your field â possibly including you personally. If you can't speak up now, when can you?
You'll pierce the veil of anonymity by revealing your gender. You don't need to refer to your gender at all. I'm a man, and I always advise authors who refer to me using a gender that it's not professional. I don't recall ever mentioning my gender when I did that.
You can't change anything. In each case where I've advised authors not to use masculine pronouns for anonymous reviewers and where there's been another round of revisions (so that I saw a response from them), they've apologized and said they won't do it again. I can't say whether they took the lesson on equality to heart, but as long as their words change that was a positive outcome.
They don't deserve to be punished for your feelings. This isn't punishment; this is a very private communication, limiting the extent of any embarrassment or any other consequences they may experience. Whereas many commenters here are suggesting that their use of the masculine is not a big deal, I would also point out that your response will not be a big deal. All you're doing is giving them a tiny bit of sound advice. And this isn't just about feelings; it's about equality in the workplace.
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I'm going to suggest something a bit different - others have hinted at this, but really there are two activities here that are being terribly conflated and should really be addressed completely separately.
As far as this specific review goes, I would completely drop it. The issue is not relevant to the review whatsoever and there are enough unknowns here to preclude your knowing the author acted out of malice (which, in fact, it is most likely the opposite case - that they wrote this with your identity being no more than an anonymous talking head and without giving it a second thought). This is issue one.
The second issue is your desire to raise awareness about gender issues in academia generally. This is doubly so the case if we default to the assumption that the original author was not being malicious but rather just defaulting to a perfectly normal standard of language which appears to be falling out of popular favour (and which you would like to change).
Consider now the second goal and the things you might do to effectively achieve that goal. What will it achieve to write a letter to the author? The editor? Probably close to nothing, and you risk introducing confusion and uncertainty into the review process. Going straight back to the author or editor here is a high-controversy, low-impact action. You won't change many peoples' ideas and you risk exposing yourself to blowback.
If this is an issue that is important to you I would suggest that you take this up as a completely separate activity entirely disconnected from this specific review. If it's an issue with one journal, surely it must be an issue with all journals and reviewers and authors in the field. Do you want to spend time and effort changing one author's mind? Or one journal's? Or do you want to actually do something effective to promote this type of change across the field?
I feel your efforts would be better rewarded by focusing them away from this specific review - why not completely independently make contact with all of the major journals in your field? Raise it as an issue on its own and pursue it on its own merits - this turns it into a general issue rather than a specific one (which you might be seen to have a conflict of interest regarding the particular review in question).
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The person is not necessarily assuming you are male. Similar to what you encountered, many women use "she" or "her" when the gender is unknown. Not using a pronoun in that spot may have made the sentence structure read awkwardly, and they might not be aware of the increasing use of "they" in such a case.
I have had women use "she" or "her" when writing about me when they did not know that I was male. I was annoyed for just a few seconds, until I realized that I occasionally do the same thing in reverse, and for that reason I have started using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun. But not everyone does that.
In short: They might not be assuming you are male, but they had to write something in that spot.
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This is an issue that is best addressed through the editor of the journal. Ultimately the best solution might be for a revision of the "Guide for Authors" noting the correct form of address (i.e., "reviewer one," "reviewer two," or "they"). A revision to the "Guide for Authors" would also allow editors more opportunity in the future to correct authors to ensure appropriate forms of address.
While the desire to address the author is understandable, I don't see how it could be done without violating any of the types of blind review:
- Single Blind - They might now know enough to tell who you are in a field with low representation.
- Double Blind - Same as single blind, plus for reasons that other answers have noted, you shouldn't be assuming their national origin.
- Triple Blind - Same as above, plus the editor now has enough information to maybe guess who you are.
Another consideration is if the author sees your feedback along with a reject notice from the editor. Depending upon their basis, they might assume that you were unduly harsh in your review because of the microaggression. It's also going to be a one-way communication which generally makes for a poor learning experience on the part of the author.
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Depending on culture the response may be male dominated and therefore the term 'he' is used mindlessly, and especially if the gender is unknown. Names don't give away gender all the time either - especially across cultures.
The term reviewer would be neutral.
There are some points of issue: Are you on a face-to-face known basis or simply on a web distance unknown basis?
If you are not on a face-to-face basis with someone then it may not be important and depending on how your gravy train works it is probably not important.
However if you are known face to face - then sure you might mention you do like to be referred to as she and not he.
In some terms let us put it this way if you are receiving work because of a 'perception' don't kill your gravy train. You KNOW who you are (or maybe not and that is the issue).
Perhaps you want to be recognized as a woman achieving, and not simply as a person achieving?
If someone is presenting an award - one likes to be referred to correctly, but if they pay me 2 million dollars and refer to me as she did an excellent job.. well I certainly did and thank you.
They may get the gender wrong but the pay and the accolade was correct. Better than $0 and saying Sally did such a wonderful job ... just missed the mark completely.
Again if I am on the web writing some code for someone and they are paying me and saying she is fantastic - well, maybe it is a typo, maybe not .. but hey I don't know them personally and maybe they feel comfortable working with a she. I am not going to tell them nor will I tell them if I am Jewish, Chinese, or whatever. I want the work and they can say man that Indian guy is doing great work...As long as they pay me and keep sending me requests for jobs...
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
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This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
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If the answer to the reviewer was restricted in length (based on characters), my suggestion is to ignore it.
In that case, "he" is simply one of the shortest pronouns available in English, and in length-limited texts, every character may count when struggling for including another statement relevant to the content of the paper or of the review.
That doesn't mean there are no better choices available, such as using "R" to refer to the reviewer (or "R1", "R2", ..., in the case of multiple reviewers) in a stylistically clumsy (based on current preferences, where repeated mentions of the same object are typically substituted with pronouns - this may be changing, of course), but short and gender-agnostic way.
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
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As a reviewer, you are supposed to comment on academic value and scientific correctness of the manuscript.
As a woman, you feel unhappy about authors not guessing a correct pronoun for you and not using an appropriate gender-neutral pronoun.
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
143
down vote
As a reviewer, you are supposed to comment on academic value and scientific correctness of the manuscript.
As a woman, you feel unhappy about authors not guessing a correct pronoun for you and not using an appropriate gender-neutral pronoun.
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
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up vote
143
down vote
up vote
143
down vote
As a reviewer, you are supposed to comment on academic value and scientific correctness of the manuscript.
As a woman, you feel unhappy about authors not guessing a correct pronoun for you and not using an appropriate gender-neutral pronoun.
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
As a reviewer, you are supposed to comment on academic value and scientific correctness of the manuscript.
As a woman, you feel unhappy about authors not guessing a correct pronoun for you and not using an appropriate gender-neutral pronoun.
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
answered Nov 2 at 8:42
Dmitry Savostyanov
22.1k747102
22.1k747102
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
Controversial Post â You may use comments ONLY to suggest improvements. You may use answers ONLY to provide a solution to the specific question asked above. Moderators will remove debates, arguments or opinions without notice.
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
10
10
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
On the one hand it's necessary to bring these issues up to improve the state of affairs. On the other hand it probably won't benefit anyone if the reviewees is criticised directly because either a) they aren't being chauvanist, just thoughtless b) they aren't being chauvanist, just English-as-second-language c) they are_ chauvanist so will just discount the reviewer's comment. I think that the best approach would be to address the response to the editor alone, and ask it as a question of some sort - "I notice that <author> said 'his' - do you think that that is just their idiom?"
â WillC
Nov 4 at 8:59
3
3
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
Interesting answer - could you add an example text how one could formulate this ?
â Falco
2 days ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
@Falco I could, however (1) I think it's best not to amend my answer to preserve consistency, and (2) it was OP's idea to write a message and OP is really the best person to write her messages as she knows all the specific details of her situation and I don't.
â Dmitry Savostyanov
13 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
132
down vote
I've found that some non-native English speakers use he for they, because that's how they'd do it in their mother tongue. Perhaps mention in your response (alongside any other language/style/etc.) issues:
Use they, rather than he, when the person's gender is unknown.
From chat:
Most native English speakers over a certain age were taught that the use of "they" to refer to a single person is incorrect (I continue to consider it incorrect).
Indeed, Strunk & White (The Elements of Style) write, "The use of he as a pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." They go on to add, "Currently, however, many writers find the use of the generic he or his to rename indefinite antecedents limiting or offensive."
But, "Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent â the word the pronoun refers to â is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed...thatâÂÂs nothing new." The OED "traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf."
See Wikipedia for a summary of guidance offered by style guides.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
132
down vote
I've found that some non-native English speakers use he for they, because that's how they'd do it in their mother tongue. Perhaps mention in your response (alongside any other language/style/etc.) issues:
Use they, rather than he, when the person's gender is unknown.
From chat:
Most native English speakers over a certain age were taught that the use of "they" to refer to a single person is incorrect (I continue to consider it incorrect).
Indeed, Strunk & White (The Elements of Style) write, "The use of he as a pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." They go on to add, "Currently, however, many writers find the use of the generic he or his to rename indefinite antecedents limiting or offensive."
But, "Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent â the word the pronoun refers to â is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed...thatâÂÂs nothing new." The OED "traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf."
See Wikipedia for a summary of guidance offered by style guides.
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
132
down vote
up vote
132
down vote
I've found that some non-native English speakers use he for they, because that's how they'd do it in their mother tongue. Perhaps mention in your response (alongside any other language/style/etc.) issues:
Use they, rather than he, when the person's gender is unknown.
From chat:
Most native English speakers over a certain age were taught that the use of "they" to refer to a single person is incorrect (I continue to consider it incorrect).
Indeed, Strunk & White (The Elements of Style) write, "The use of he as a pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." They go on to add, "Currently, however, many writers find the use of the generic he or his to rename indefinite antecedents limiting or offensive."
But, "Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent â the word the pronoun refers to â is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed...thatâÂÂs nothing new." The OED "traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf."
See Wikipedia for a summary of guidance offered by style guides.
I've found that some non-native English speakers use he for they, because that's how they'd do it in their mother tongue. Perhaps mention in your response (alongside any other language/style/etc.) issues:
Use they, rather than he, when the person's gender is unknown.
From chat:
Most native English speakers over a certain age were taught that the use of "they" to refer to a single person is incorrect (I continue to consider it incorrect).
Indeed, Strunk & White (The Elements of Style) write, "The use of he as a pronoun for nouns embracing both genders is a simple, practical convention rooted in the beginnings of the English language." They go on to add, "Currently, however, many writers find the use of the generic he or his to rename indefinite antecedents limiting or offensive."
But, "Singular they has become the pronoun of choice to replace he and she in cases where the gender of the antecedent â the word the pronoun refers to â is unknown, irrelevant, or nonbinary, or where gender needs to be concealed...thatâÂÂs nothing new." The OED "traces singular they back to 1375, where it appears in the medieval romance William and the Werewolf."
See Wikipedia for a summary of guidance offered by style guides.
edited 2 days ago
answered Nov 2 at 8:20
user2768
9,09022542
9,09022542
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
add a comment |Â
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 20:19
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
down vote
I don't know what an editor would think of it, but I think it's fine to mention your experience of receiving the review with the incorrect pronoun, as long as (like other answers have said) you allow for the possibility that it was a translation error etc.
e.g.
...authors have addressed all issues...
PS. I appreciate this is a relatively minor issue, but as a female reviewer it felt awkward to be referred to as 'he' by the authors.
It may make more sense to do this if there is some action you would like the editor to take, e.g.
Would you consider issuing guidelines to authors and reviewers that they should not presume the gender of their colleagues?
I don't agree that as a reviewer/any other professional role you should have to ignore the discouraging effect that adds up from these interactions.
New contributor
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
down vote
I don't know what an editor would think of it, but I think it's fine to mention your experience of receiving the review with the incorrect pronoun, as long as (like other answers have said) you allow for the possibility that it was a translation error etc.
e.g.
...authors have addressed all issues...
PS. I appreciate this is a relatively minor issue, but as a female reviewer it felt awkward to be referred to as 'he' by the authors.
It may make more sense to do this if there is some action you would like the editor to take, e.g.
Would you consider issuing guidelines to authors and reviewers that they should not presume the gender of their colleagues?
I don't agree that as a reviewer/any other professional role you should have to ignore the discouraging effect that adds up from these interactions.
New contributor
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
91
down vote
up vote
91
down vote
I don't know what an editor would think of it, but I think it's fine to mention your experience of receiving the review with the incorrect pronoun, as long as (like other answers have said) you allow for the possibility that it was a translation error etc.
e.g.
...authors have addressed all issues...
PS. I appreciate this is a relatively minor issue, but as a female reviewer it felt awkward to be referred to as 'he' by the authors.
It may make more sense to do this if there is some action you would like the editor to take, e.g.
Would you consider issuing guidelines to authors and reviewers that they should not presume the gender of their colleagues?
I don't agree that as a reviewer/any other professional role you should have to ignore the discouraging effect that adds up from these interactions.
New contributor
I don't know what an editor would think of it, but I think it's fine to mention your experience of receiving the review with the incorrect pronoun, as long as (like other answers have said) you allow for the possibility that it was a translation error etc.
e.g.
...authors have addressed all issues...
PS. I appreciate this is a relatively minor issue, but as a female reviewer it felt awkward to be referred to as 'he' by the authors.
It may make more sense to do this if there is some action you would like the editor to take, e.g.
Would you consider issuing guidelines to authors and reviewers that they should not presume the gender of their colleagues?
I don't agree that as a reviewer/any other professional role you should have to ignore the discouraging effect that adds up from these interactions.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Nov 2 at 10:51
user100093
78913
78913
New contributor
New contributor
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
â ff524â¦
2 days ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
74
down vote
Just drop it.
There are places where it's entirely reasonable for a scholar to start a discussion with a colleague about politically-charged, potentially-inflammatory topics such as microagressions, the appropriateness of using "he" as a genderless pronoun, unintended negative consequence of assuming a random member of a (presumably) male-dominated field is male, etc etc.
Reviewer-author communications are an especially poor choice of such a place.
- Revealing information about your identity or ideological beliefs threatens your anonymity;
- Peer reviews are intended to be objective, impartial, and impersonal, and political activism is decidedly off-topic in this context;
- The review process is already often stressful and tense, and criticism of the author's communication style is more-likely-than-usual to be interpreted as confrontational rather educational.
EDIT: to answer your specific question: as an associate editor, I would do nothing: I would not delete a sufficiently civil correction in the âÂÂcomments to authors,â nor would I relay anything to the authors if you put it in âÂÂprivate comments to the editor.â I would base all my decisions purely on the technical content of the review.
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
9
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
12
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
74
down vote
Just drop it.
There are places where it's entirely reasonable for a scholar to start a discussion with a colleague about politically-charged, potentially-inflammatory topics such as microagressions, the appropriateness of using "he" as a genderless pronoun, unintended negative consequence of assuming a random member of a (presumably) male-dominated field is male, etc etc.
Reviewer-author communications are an especially poor choice of such a place.
- Revealing information about your identity or ideological beliefs threatens your anonymity;
- Peer reviews are intended to be objective, impartial, and impersonal, and political activism is decidedly off-topic in this context;
- The review process is already often stressful and tense, and criticism of the author's communication style is more-likely-than-usual to be interpreted as confrontational rather educational.
EDIT: to answer your specific question: as an associate editor, I would do nothing: I would not delete a sufficiently civil correction in the âÂÂcomments to authors,â nor would I relay anything to the authors if you put it in âÂÂprivate comments to the editor.â I would base all my decisions purely on the technical content of the review.
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
9
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
12
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
74
down vote
up vote
74
down vote
Just drop it.
There are places where it's entirely reasonable for a scholar to start a discussion with a colleague about politically-charged, potentially-inflammatory topics such as microagressions, the appropriateness of using "he" as a genderless pronoun, unintended negative consequence of assuming a random member of a (presumably) male-dominated field is male, etc etc.
Reviewer-author communications are an especially poor choice of such a place.
- Revealing information about your identity or ideological beliefs threatens your anonymity;
- Peer reviews are intended to be objective, impartial, and impersonal, and political activism is decidedly off-topic in this context;
- The review process is already often stressful and tense, and criticism of the author's communication style is more-likely-than-usual to be interpreted as confrontational rather educational.
EDIT: to answer your specific question: as an associate editor, I would do nothing: I would not delete a sufficiently civil correction in the âÂÂcomments to authors,â nor would I relay anything to the authors if you put it in âÂÂprivate comments to the editor.â I would base all my decisions purely on the technical content of the review.
Just drop it.
There are places where it's entirely reasonable for a scholar to start a discussion with a colleague about politically-charged, potentially-inflammatory topics such as microagressions, the appropriateness of using "he" as a genderless pronoun, unintended negative consequence of assuming a random member of a (presumably) male-dominated field is male, etc etc.
Reviewer-author communications are an especially poor choice of such a place.
- Revealing information about your identity or ideological beliefs threatens your anonymity;
- Peer reviews are intended to be objective, impartial, and impersonal, and political activism is decidedly off-topic in this context;
- The review process is already often stressful and tense, and criticism of the author's communication style is more-likely-than-usual to be interpreted as confrontational rather educational.
EDIT: to answer your specific question: as an associate editor, I would do nothing: I would not delete a sufficiently civil correction in the âÂÂcomments to authors,â nor would I relay anything to the authors if you put it in âÂÂprivate comments to the editor.â I would base all my decisions purely on the technical content of the review.
edited Nov 4 at 17:30
answered Nov 2 at 18:59
user168715
4,19521418
4,19521418
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
9
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
12
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
 |Â
show 2 more comments
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
9
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
12
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
38
38
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
@user2357 even if the majority agree with your interpretation, a non negligible number of people will stridently insists that âÂÂI wasnâÂÂt assuming gender, I was using a gender neutral pronoun.â ItâÂÂs just not the argument you want to start in the middle of peer review.
â user168715
Nov 2 at 19:54
34
34
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
@user2357 You're assuming that they're assuming your gender, which is likely not accurate. While it's less common now than in the past, using the masculine personal pronouns as gender-neutral pronouns is still perfectly valid English and many people (especially from earlier generations) were taught this as being the correct set of pronouns to use. It is extremely likely that the author was neither intending offense nor assuming anyone's gender.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:24
9
9
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
@user2357 I've almost consistently used he when referring to users in conversation on the internet, and I have never meant it to assume anyone's gender. If someone corrects me on their gender I accept it and carry on. And I don't treat it as a micro-agression or whatever. What I've come to notice is that people are more likely to use the pronoun that refers to them more often in such situations. There might be a psychological basis for that. I'm not certain. I definitely agree here though. Unless the replier knew their gender beforehand it's likely an unconscious writing habit.
â The Great Duck
Nov 3 at 17:57
3
3
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
@eykanal What was uncivil about the deleted comments? I'm curious. How am I going to learn the code necessary to have the right to talk on this website if you never explain your actions?
â user2357
Nov 4 at 10:54
12
12
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
@user168715 A bit of a nitpick, but it's gender-indefinite, not gender-neutral. The former means you can use it when gender is unknown. The latter means you can use it even if gender is known.
â forest
Nov 4 at 12:08
 |Â
show 2 more comments
up vote
48
down vote
I think you should let this one go.
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, there's always a chance you get it wrong. For example take most questions here on Academia.SE. If you have to refer to the question-asker in a situation where the gender is unknown, do you use 'he' or 'she'? It's either choose one and risk the possibility of getting it wrong, or write 'he or she' everywhere and end up with a very cumbersome answer (not to mention there's still a chance you get it wrong, since it's possible the question-asker identifies as transgender and prefers 'they').
That said, you could write something like this:
The authors have addressed all the issues, and I recommend this paper for publication.
PS: I'm female.
Writing something short like this is unlikely to make the editor groan, and he or she (or they) will probably pass your comment on to the authors. Editors don't usually censor reviewers - that only happens if there's something really inappropriate in the review, and this certainly isn't something inappropriate.
50
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
46
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
49
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
 |Â
show 14 more comments
up vote
48
down vote
I think you should let this one go.
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, there's always a chance you get it wrong. For example take most questions here on Academia.SE. If you have to refer to the question-asker in a situation where the gender is unknown, do you use 'he' or 'she'? It's either choose one and risk the possibility of getting it wrong, or write 'he or she' everywhere and end up with a very cumbersome answer (not to mention there's still a chance you get it wrong, since it's possible the question-asker identifies as transgender and prefers 'they').
That said, you could write something like this:
The authors have addressed all the issues, and I recommend this paper for publication.
PS: I'm female.
Writing something short like this is unlikely to make the editor groan, and he or she (or they) will probably pass your comment on to the authors. Editors don't usually censor reviewers - that only happens if there's something really inappropriate in the review, and this certainly isn't something inappropriate.
50
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
46
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
49
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
 |Â
show 14 more comments
up vote
48
down vote
up vote
48
down vote
I think you should let this one go.
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, there's always a chance you get it wrong. For example take most questions here on Academia.SE. If you have to refer to the question-asker in a situation where the gender is unknown, do you use 'he' or 'she'? It's either choose one and risk the possibility of getting it wrong, or write 'he or she' everywhere and end up with a very cumbersome answer (not to mention there's still a chance you get it wrong, since it's possible the question-asker identifies as transgender and prefers 'they').
That said, you could write something like this:
The authors have addressed all the issues, and I recommend this paper for publication.
PS: I'm female.
Writing something short like this is unlikely to make the editor groan, and he or she (or they) will probably pass your comment on to the authors. Editors don't usually censor reviewers - that only happens if there's something really inappropriate in the review, and this certainly isn't something inappropriate.
I think you should let this one go.
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, there's always a chance you get it wrong. For example take most questions here on Academia.SE. If you have to refer to the question-asker in a situation where the gender is unknown, do you use 'he' or 'she'? It's either choose one and risk the possibility of getting it wrong, or write 'he or she' everywhere and end up with a very cumbersome answer (not to mention there's still a chance you get it wrong, since it's possible the question-asker identifies as transgender and prefers 'they').
That said, you could write something like this:
The authors have addressed all the issues, and I recommend this paper for publication.
PS: I'm female.
Writing something short like this is unlikely to make the editor groan, and he or she (or they) will probably pass your comment on to the authors. Editors don't usually censor reviewers - that only happens if there's something really inappropriate in the review, and this certainly isn't something inappropriate.
answered Nov 2 at 7:27
Allure
21.9k1371117
21.9k1371117
50
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
46
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
49
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
 |Â
show 14 more comments
50
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
46
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
49
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
50
50
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
The person you are referring to doesn't need to be trans for you to use "they" instead of "he/she". You can use it as a direct replacement of "he/she" in every instance.
â astronat
Nov 2 at 8:08
46
46
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
That's new. As I was taught, "they" usually refers to more than one person.
â Allure
Nov 2 at 8:47
49
49
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
The authors should probably not know the referee's gender in a blind review process.
â fqq
Nov 2 at 9:23
21
21
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
If you have to use pronouns in situations where you don't know the author's gender, -- In my experience, it is quite trivial to avoid using pronouns altogether, when writing a review response (for example by referring to the reviewer as the reviewer, similarly to using the OP on SE)
â user53923
Nov 2 at 9:39
54
54
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
@Allure, the singular 'they' has been around since 1375 (public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they)
â Lamar Latrell
Nov 2 at 10:01
 |Â
show 14 more comments
up vote
41
down vote
If the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to a reviewer of unknown gender is problematic, this is so independently of the gender of the particular reviewer. A formulation like the following allows the reviewer to indicate this without revealing the reviewer's gender. In the reply to the authors the reviewer could write something like the following: Although the following comment is not relevant to my evaluation of the technical merit of the manuscript, the authors are advised that writing "his concerns" when referring to the concerns of an unknown reviewer presupposes that the reviewer is male, and that such an unfounded assumption could be bothersome to some reviewers.
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
41
down vote
If the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to a reviewer of unknown gender is problematic, this is so independently of the gender of the particular reviewer. A formulation like the following allows the reviewer to indicate this without revealing the reviewer's gender. In the reply to the authors the reviewer could write something like the following: Although the following comment is not relevant to my evaluation of the technical merit of the manuscript, the authors are advised that writing "his concerns" when referring to the concerns of an unknown reviewer presupposes that the reviewer is male, and that such an unfounded assumption could be bothersome to some reviewers.
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
41
down vote
up vote
41
down vote
If the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to a reviewer of unknown gender is problematic, this is so independently of the gender of the particular reviewer. A formulation like the following allows the reviewer to indicate this without revealing the reviewer's gender. In the reply to the authors the reviewer could write something like the following: Although the following comment is not relevant to my evaluation of the technical merit of the manuscript, the authors are advised that writing "his concerns" when referring to the concerns of an unknown reviewer presupposes that the reviewer is male, and that such an unfounded assumption could be bothersome to some reviewers.
If the use of the masculine pronoun to refer to a reviewer of unknown gender is problematic, this is so independently of the gender of the particular reviewer. A formulation like the following allows the reviewer to indicate this without revealing the reviewer's gender. In the reply to the authors the reviewer could write something like the following: Although the following comment is not relevant to my evaluation of the technical merit of the manuscript, the authors are advised that writing "his concerns" when referring to the concerns of an unknown reviewer presupposes that the reviewer is male, and that such an unfounded assumption could be bothersome to some reviewers.
edited Nov 5 at 11:22
answered Nov 2 at 16:41
Dan Fox
2,296189
2,296189
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
 |Â
show 1 more comment
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
4
4
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
While I may not agree with some of your comments above, I do believe this is a very reasonable answer to the question.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 18:24
3
3
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
I'd suggest that the current italicized formulation (as of revision 1) makes assumptions about the authors' intent. The phrase "his concerns" might presuppose that the reviewer is male; it might alternately be used with gender-neutral intent because, until recently, prescriptive grammar taught people to use male pronouns for unknown individuals. With respect, stating these assumptions as fact might not adequately cover the possible scenarios. I can't seem to think of a formulation that covers both possibilities yet isn't cumbersome.
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:16
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
Minor point: the "and that" yields uncertainty: does it refer back to being advised, or to being presupposed?
â Mathieu K.
Nov 4 at 2:34
3
3
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
I'd phrase it "could be bothersome to some reviewers.". Otherwise, it's also "gender assumption" thing but in opposite direction.
â Agent_L
Nov 5 at 9:10
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
@Agent_L: I edited the proposal to make the change you suggest. Additionally, I don't pretend to offer a definitive wording, rather simply something viable, and what I've proposed surely can be improved in various ways.
â Dan Fox
Nov 5 at 11:24
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
26
down vote
Question: Should I simply ignore authors assuming I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
I wouldn't. But - I'd try to say something that sounds dispassionate and not very accusative. Paraphrasing @Allure's suggestion, and assuming the authors get a copy of your recommendation, I'd write something like:
The authors have addressed all the issues; the paper is therefore recommended for publication.
PS: In their response to the review, the authors assumed the reviewer was male (e.g. in using references such as "his concerns"). The authors are reminded that is not necessarily the case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
26
down vote
Question: Should I simply ignore authors assuming I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
I wouldn't. But - I'd try to say something that sounds dispassionate and not very accusative. Paraphrasing @Allure's suggestion, and assuming the authors get a copy of your recommendation, I'd write something like:
The authors have addressed all the issues; the paper is therefore recommended for publication.
PS: In their response to the review, the authors assumed the reviewer was male (e.g. in using references such as "his concerns"). The authors are reminded that is not necessarily the case.
add a comment |Â
up vote
26
down vote
up vote
26
down vote
Question: Should I simply ignore authors assuming I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
I wouldn't. But - I'd try to say something that sounds dispassionate and not very accusative. Paraphrasing @Allure's suggestion, and assuming the authors get a copy of your recommendation, I'd write something like:
The authors have addressed all the issues; the paper is therefore recommended for publication.
PS: In their response to the review, the authors assumed the reviewer was male (e.g. in using references such as "his concerns"). The authors are reminded that is not necessarily the case.
Question: Should I simply ignore authors assuming I'm male in their response to my review of their article?
I wouldn't. But - I'd try to say something that sounds dispassionate and not very accusative. Paraphrasing @Allure's suggestion, and assuming the authors get a copy of your recommendation, I'd write something like:
The authors have addressed all the issues; the paper is therefore recommended for publication.
PS: In their response to the review, the authors assumed the reviewer was male (e.g. in using references such as "his concerns"). The authors are reminded that is not necessarily the case.
edited Nov 4 at 23:18
answered Nov 3 at 8:39
einpoklum
22.2k136130
22.2k136130
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
This has so far been mostly pointed out in the comments, but since comments get culled on topics like this, let me re-state it as an answer:
You don't know whether the authors are actually assuming your gender, or merely using a grammatical rule that you dislike, or aren't even fully conscious of their grammar (e.g., being non-native speakers).
Any response should take this into account: you don't want to assume what the authors are doing either. Thus, as several people on this thread have suggested (often for other reasons), it makes sense to be non-confrontative and not centralize the topic in your response.
The concept of a microaggression, too, does not have the empirical footing that it ought to have before I would start lobbing it as an accusation; google for "microaggression evidence" (e.g., Scott O. Lilienfeld, Microaggressions: Strong Claims, Inadequate Evidence). It isn't hard to draw some lines and define some things to be microaggressions, but the lines will depend heavily on who is drawing them, all while the actual damage done by crossing these lines is far from established. At the very least, the field isn't yet at the point where it can be applied with a resemblance of surety. Correspondingly, whatever you suggest should be a suggestion, not a correction.
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
4
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
4
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
This has so far been mostly pointed out in the comments, but since comments get culled on topics like this, let me re-state it as an answer:
You don't know whether the authors are actually assuming your gender, or merely using a grammatical rule that you dislike, or aren't even fully conscious of their grammar (e.g., being non-native speakers).
Any response should take this into account: you don't want to assume what the authors are doing either. Thus, as several people on this thread have suggested (often for other reasons), it makes sense to be non-confrontative and not centralize the topic in your response.
The concept of a microaggression, too, does not have the empirical footing that it ought to have before I would start lobbing it as an accusation; google for "microaggression evidence" (e.g., Scott O. Lilienfeld, Microaggressions: Strong Claims, Inadequate Evidence). It isn't hard to draw some lines and define some things to be microaggressions, but the lines will depend heavily on who is drawing them, all while the actual damage done by crossing these lines is far from established. At the very least, the field isn't yet at the point where it can be applied with a resemblance of surety. Correspondingly, whatever you suggest should be a suggestion, not a correction.
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
4
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
4
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
17
down vote
up vote
17
down vote
This has so far been mostly pointed out in the comments, but since comments get culled on topics like this, let me re-state it as an answer:
You don't know whether the authors are actually assuming your gender, or merely using a grammatical rule that you dislike, or aren't even fully conscious of their grammar (e.g., being non-native speakers).
Any response should take this into account: you don't want to assume what the authors are doing either. Thus, as several people on this thread have suggested (often for other reasons), it makes sense to be non-confrontative and not centralize the topic in your response.
The concept of a microaggression, too, does not have the empirical footing that it ought to have before I would start lobbing it as an accusation; google for "microaggression evidence" (e.g., Scott O. Lilienfeld, Microaggressions: Strong Claims, Inadequate Evidence). It isn't hard to draw some lines and define some things to be microaggressions, but the lines will depend heavily on who is drawing them, all while the actual damage done by crossing these lines is far from established. At the very least, the field isn't yet at the point where it can be applied with a resemblance of surety. Correspondingly, whatever you suggest should be a suggestion, not a correction.
This has so far been mostly pointed out in the comments, but since comments get culled on topics like this, let me re-state it as an answer:
You don't know whether the authors are actually assuming your gender, or merely using a grammatical rule that you dislike, or aren't even fully conscious of their grammar (e.g., being non-native speakers).
Any response should take this into account: you don't want to assume what the authors are doing either. Thus, as several people on this thread have suggested (often for other reasons), it makes sense to be non-confrontative and not centralize the topic in your response.
The concept of a microaggression, too, does not have the empirical footing that it ought to have before I would start lobbing it as an accusation; google for "microaggression evidence" (e.g., Scott O. Lilienfeld, Microaggressions: Strong Claims, Inadequate Evidence). It isn't hard to draw some lines and define some things to be microaggressions, but the lines will depend heavily on who is drawing them, all while the actual damage done by crossing these lines is far from established. At the very least, the field isn't yet at the point where it can be applied with a resemblance of surety. Correspondingly, whatever you suggest should be a suggestion, not a correction.
answered Nov 3 at 19:28
darij grinberg
2,2001919
2,2001919
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
4
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
4
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
4
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
4
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
4
4
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
I think you're misunderstanding the implications of the paper you point to. The claim isn't that microagressions are too ill-defined to be useful. Instead, its claims are very narrow and specific to psychological science. The OP is not asking about the reproducibility or scientific validation of her feelings; she is asking colleagues to behave as if she were a full member of her academic community. The fact that others may not share her belief that this constitutes a microagression doesn't change the fact that a reasonable person is thereby meant to feel that she doesn't "belong here".
â Mike
Nov 4 at 14:12
4
4
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
Whether or not indeterminately using "he" is a 'microagression', it's certainly neither considerate nor polite. It don't think its wrong to calmly point this out.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:32
4
4
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
@Mike: The points I'm making are (1) and (5) in the abstract of the paper. You are presuming a lot when you're saying "meant to feel". As I explained in my answer, "he" isn't necessarily an assumption of gender; we are talking about accidental microaggressions here, if the word makes any sense at all.
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 17:07
7
7
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
@Mike: You're simply assuming a "they", or whatever other pronouns the author finds fashionable, would be less irksome. The word "microaggression" certainly hasn't done anything but irking people; why not stop using it as well?
â darij grinberg
Nov 4 at 18:52
4
4
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
My amateur viewpoint on "microaggressions" is exactly that these little things need not be deliberate, need not be malicious, can even be said in a friendly or pseudo-complimentary way... but if experienced on a daily (hourly?) basis, can easily serve to (accidentally) drive home the the point "you don't really belong here (whether or not we're nice to you)", with the "we" being "the people who do belong".
â paul garrett
2 days ago
 |Â
show 8 more comments
up vote
13
down vote
I think your question can be rephrased like this:
Should you do what you think it's right, or should you not, because it is likely to bite you back?
From my experience, nobody likes to be contradicted. Regardless of the context, or even the possible benefits that changing their minds can bring to them, people simply hate it to be contradicted. No matter whom (the journal, the authors, etc) you raise the issue, you'll be perceived as a pain in the ass, smaller or bigger, depending on how diplomatic you are.
What you need to do is to assess 2 things: what you lose and what you gain if you contradict someone. When assessing losses don't forget to include things like the spent effort (like posting this question here) and the virtual losses of debates which you may not have since the current loss will exclude you. When assessing gains don't forget to assess things like the societal impact.
In short: pick your battles. Only you can answer which are worth fighting for.
Edit: People keep misinterpreting my answer, which indicates that it is not clear enough. This is an attempt to clarify it.
Any answer that she should reply about the misuse of the pronoun or that she should let it go, is, in my opinion irresponsible. None of these 2 decisions can be reached simply by using the information provided in the answer. Such a decision should depend on many things, some of which are very personal details about the Original Poster (OP) (some examples are: is she currently involved in a lot of projects, is she currently over stressed, what is her relationship with the journal, does she care about it, can this affect her career, to what extent etc). Due to the nature of such details, I do not expect the OP to clarify the question, but to be helpful, I indicated a basic possible framework, which can help her reach a conclusion of her own.
Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter. Her life is not a democracy, and her personal circumstances are not the same as other people circumstances. It is fair to say what one would do in her position, it is not fair to tell her what to do, from a selfish interest to promote the interests of the answering person, disregarding the possible detrimental effects on the OP and her agenda.
To exemplify, in her position, I would let it go, because I do not think that using the male pronoun as a neutral gender pronoun means anything more than that. I do not think it is non-inclusive, but a mere artifact of how English evolved over thousands of years. Even if it might have had non-inclusive origins (a fact that I do not know of) thousands of years ago, it does not have a non-inclusive meaning now. Still, I personally use they when the gender is not clear, because I know it might bother other people, and whether they are right or wrong, I still don't want to annoy them or disrupt the flow of whatever we were doing.
Even if in OP's position, I would let it go, I do not think that this is the best decision for her to take, because the optimal solution depends on her circumstances, of which I am not, and I cannot be aware of. Simply said, I am not her, and I encourage you, the OP, to carefully look inwards for an answer.
I hope that with my edit, which in my opinion, is just rephrasing and exemplifying my original answer, the answer is more clear now.
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
13
down vote
I think your question can be rephrased like this:
Should you do what you think it's right, or should you not, because it is likely to bite you back?
From my experience, nobody likes to be contradicted. Regardless of the context, or even the possible benefits that changing their minds can bring to them, people simply hate it to be contradicted. No matter whom (the journal, the authors, etc) you raise the issue, you'll be perceived as a pain in the ass, smaller or bigger, depending on how diplomatic you are.
What you need to do is to assess 2 things: what you lose and what you gain if you contradict someone. When assessing losses don't forget to include things like the spent effort (like posting this question here) and the virtual losses of debates which you may not have since the current loss will exclude you. When assessing gains don't forget to assess things like the societal impact.
In short: pick your battles. Only you can answer which are worth fighting for.
Edit: People keep misinterpreting my answer, which indicates that it is not clear enough. This is an attempt to clarify it.
Any answer that she should reply about the misuse of the pronoun or that she should let it go, is, in my opinion irresponsible. None of these 2 decisions can be reached simply by using the information provided in the answer. Such a decision should depend on many things, some of which are very personal details about the Original Poster (OP) (some examples are: is she currently involved in a lot of projects, is she currently over stressed, what is her relationship with the journal, does she care about it, can this affect her career, to what extent etc). Due to the nature of such details, I do not expect the OP to clarify the question, but to be helpful, I indicated a basic possible framework, which can help her reach a conclusion of her own.
Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter. Her life is not a democracy, and her personal circumstances are not the same as other people circumstances. It is fair to say what one would do in her position, it is not fair to tell her what to do, from a selfish interest to promote the interests of the answering person, disregarding the possible detrimental effects on the OP and her agenda.
To exemplify, in her position, I would let it go, because I do not think that using the male pronoun as a neutral gender pronoun means anything more than that. I do not think it is non-inclusive, but a mere artifact of how English evolved over thousands of years. Even if it might have had non-inclusive origins (a fact that I do not know of) thousands of years ago, it does not have a non-inclusive meaning now. Still, I personally use they when the gender is not clear, because I know it might bother other people, and whether they are right or wrong, I still don't want to annoy them or disrupt the flow of whatever we were doing.
Even if in OP's position, I would let it go, I do not think that this is the best decision for her to take, because the optimal solution depends on her circumstances, of which I am not, and I cannot be aware of. Simply said, I am not her, and I encourage you, the OP, to carefully look inwards for an answer.
I hope that with my edit, which in my opinion, is just rephrasing and exemplifying my original answer, the answer is more clear now.
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
I think your question can be rephrased like this:
Should you do what you think it's right, or should you not, because it is likely to bite you back?
From my experience, nobody likes to be contradicted. Regardless of the context, or even the possible benefits that changing their minds can bring to them, people simply hate it to be contradicted. No matter whom (the journal, the authors, etc) you raise the issue, you'll be perceived as a pain in the ass, smaller or bigger, depending on how diplomatic you are.
What you need to do is to assess 2 things: what you lose and what you gain if you contradict someone. When assessing losses don't forget to include things like the spent effort (like posting this question here) and the virtual losses of debates which you may not have since the current loss will exclude you. When assessing gains don't forget to assess things like the societal impact.
In short: pick your battles. Only you can answer which are worth fighting for.
Edit: People keep misinterpreting my answer, which indicates that it is not clear enough. This is an attempt to clarify it.
Any answer that she should reply about the misuse of the pronoun or that she should let it go, is, in my opinion irresponsible. None of these 2 decisions can be reached simply by using the information provided in the answer. Such a decision should depend on many things, some of which are very personal details about the Original Poster (OP) (some examples are: is she currently involved in a lot of projects, is she currently over stressed, what is her relationship with the journal, does she care about it, can this affect her career, to what extent etc). Due to the nature of such details, I do not expect the OP to clarify the question, but to be helpful, I indicated a basic possible framework, which can help her reach a conclusion of her own.
Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter. Her life is not a democracy, and her personal circumstances are not the same as other people circumstances. It is fair to say what one would do in her position, it is not fair to tell her what to do, from a selfish interest to promote the interests of the answering person, disregarding the possible detrimental effects on the OP and her agenda.
To exemplify, in her position, I would let it go, because I do not think that using the male pronoun as a neutral gender pronoun means anything more than that. I do not think it is non-inclusive, but a mere artifact of how English evolved over thousands of years. Even if it might have had non-inclusive origins (a fact that I do not know of) thousands of years ago, it does not have a non-inclusive meaning now. Still, I personally use they when the gender is not clear, because I know it might bother other people, and whether they are right or wrong, I still don't want to annoy them or disrupt the flow of whatever we were doing.
Even if in OP's position, I would let it go, I do not think that this is the best decision for her to take, because the optimal solution depends on her circumstances, of which I am not, and I cannot be aware of. Simply said, I am not her, and I encourage you, the OP, to carefully look inwards for an answer.
I hope that with my edit, which in my opinion, is just rephrasing and exemplifying my original answer, the answer is more clear now.
I think your question can be rephrased like this:
Should you do what you think it's right, or should you not, because it is likely to bite you back?
From my experience, nobody likes to be contradicted. Regardless of the context, or even the possible benefits that changing their minds can bring to them, people simply hate it to be contradicted. No matter whom (the journal, the authors, etc) you raise the issue, you'll be perceived as a pain in the ass, smaller or bigger, depending on how diplomatic you are.
What you need to do is to assess 2 things: what you lose and what you gain if you contradict someone. When assessing losses don't forget to include things like the spent effort (like posting this question here) and the virtual losses of debates which you may not have since the current loss will exclude you. When assessing gains don't forget to assess things like the societal impact.
In short: pick your battles. Only you can answer which are worth fighting for.
Edit: People keep misinterpreting my answer, which indicates that it is not clear enough. This is an attempt to clarify it.
Any answer that she should reply about the misuse of the pronoun or that she should let it go, is, in my opinion irresponsible. None of these 2 decisions can be reached simply by using the information provided in the answer. Such a decision should depend on many things, some of which are very personal details about the Original Poster (OP) (some examples are: is she currently involved in a lot of projects, is she currently over stressed, what is her relationship with the journal, does she care about it, can this affect her career, to what extent etc). Due to the nature of such details, I do not expect the OP to clarify the question, but to be helpful, I indicated a basic possible framework, which can help her reach a conclusion of her own.
Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter. Her life is not a democracy, and her personal circumstances are not the same as other people circumstances. It is fair to say what one would do in her position, it is not fair to tell her what to do, from a selfish interest to promote the interests of the answering person, disregarding the possible detrimental effects on the OP and her agenda.
To exemplify, in her position, I would let it go, because I do not think that using the male pronoun as a neutral gender pronoun means anything more than that. I do not think it is non-inclusive, but a mere artifact of how English evolved over thousands of years. Even if it might have had non-inclusive origins (a fact that I do not know of) thousands of years ago, it does not have a non-inclusive meaning now. Still, I personally use they when the gender is not clear, because I know it might bother other people, and whether they are right or wrong, I still don't want to annoy them or disrupt the flow of whatever we were doing.
Even if in OP's position, I would let it go, I do not think that this is the best decision for her to take, because the optimal solution depends on her circumstances, of which I am not, and I cannot be aware of. Simply said, I am not her, and I encourage you, the OP, to carefully look inwards for an answer.
I hope that with my edit, which in my opinion, is just rephrasing and exemplifying my original answer, the answer is more clear now.
edited yesterday
gmatht
1032
1032
answered Nov 2 at 13:22
Andrei
61438
61438
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
 |Â
show 1 more comment
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
@StrongBad I did not consider it not nice, otherwise I would not have wrote it, but I'm not a moderator, so then it is not up to me to ultimately judge what's nice and what's not. You made a call, thanks for the edit. Edit: Apparently I can also edit other people's answers. I was not aware of this until now. Anyway, the edit stays.
â Andrei
Nov 2 at 16:38
2
2
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
Your edit definitely changes things (to me). It now gives an answer of what you would do and as such offered a course of action with an explanation of why. Your previous answer, was "In short: pick your battles ...". That is sound advice for many things in personal and professional life but doesn't really help most folks, imho. I've removed my down vote.
â CramerTV
Nov 2 at 23:22
1
1
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
@Andrei yes with enough rep you can edit anyone's posts. I made the edit as a regular user and not with my super mod powers. The idea is for everyone to improve our community. Your further edits are great and I think this is now a really good answer.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 3 at 14:50
2
2
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
"Most people who already answered here believe she needs a push towards a decision, or a public poll on the matter." <- Not sure why you're saying that.
â einpoklum
Nov 3 at 19:42
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
+1, I don't agree with the idea that gender neutral "he" is inclusive, but strongly agree that people dislike being contradicted, and OP's dilemma is about balancing values with practicality. That OP even asked the question suggests that this value is pretty important to her, and probably out ways the practicality.
â Clumsy cat
Nov 3 at 19:44
 |Â
show 1 more comment
up vote
11
down vote
Apply Hanlon's razor with great liberty. It is most probably thoughtlessness in this case.
Peer-review is supposed to be a neutral and objective process, which involves the authors not communicating directly with the reviewers. Thus, the authors most probably had no idea you are a woman.
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
Apply Hanlon's razor with great liberty. It is most probably thoughtlessness in this case.
Peer-review is supposed to be a neutral and objective process, which involves the authors not communicating directly with the reviewers. Thus, the authors most probably had no idea you are a woman.
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
up vote
11
down vote
Apply Hanlon's razor with great liberty. It is most probably thoughtlessness in this case.
Peer-review is supposed to be a neutral and objective process, which involves the authors not communicating directly with the reviewers. Thus, the authors most probably had no idea you are a woman.
Apply Hanlon's razor with great liberty. It is most probably thoughtlessness in this case.
Peer-review is supposed to be a neutral and objective process, which involves the authors not communicating directly with the reviewers. Thus, the authors most probably had no idea you are a woman.
answered Nov 5 at 8:52
Dohn Joe
27315
27315
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
add a comment |Â
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
7
7
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
I donâÂÂt think OP is assuming malice. ItâÂÂs fairly reasonable to still want to correct this incorrect usage, regardless of intent.
â Konrad Rudolph
Nov 5 at 12:45
2
2
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
However, reviewers are supposed to be anonymous to the authors of the paper. Thus, correcting the use of gender-related pronouns reveals the identity of the reviewer to a certain extent, especially in fields with little women in top positions. If at all, such a correction should be handled by the editor, which leaves open the possibility that the author referred to reviewer B as he, while in truth reviewer D is the woman.
â Dohn Joe
Nov 5 at 14:35
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
Firstly, I would check whether the journal has a policy or style guidelines to the effect of using gender-neutral pronouns, and whether the authors are native/non-native speakers of English. If, as you say, you have met one of the authors, you probably can make a strong guess at their nativity.
Case 1: Non-native speaker
Many (I would hazard a guess and say most) non-native speakers, myself included, have been taught never to use "they" in singular. In fact, we received corporal punishments at times if we did that. I learnt about this usage only after I relocated, and since then I've had to consciously convince myself to use it. Secondly, some of the non-English languages I speak, don't have or usually use gender-neutral pronouns. Although that is changing, they are far behind on the curve than English is. Hence, in the case of non-native speakers, I would probably give them a large benefit of doubt.
In this case, I suggest that you write to the editor separately. If they don't have a policy, request that they make one. If they do, explain your experience without naming names and request them to enforce it better.
Case 2: Native speaker
This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt. In this case, I would go with something like what @user100093 suggests in his answer, except I would modify the 'P. S.' section to say - "This is a relatively minor issue, but I would appreciate it if the authors don't assume the gender of the reviewers in their responses or communications". That way you have made your point without revealing your own gender, thus preserving anonymity.
As to whether the editor would actually pass on the message to the authors - who knows. But I don't believe that you will be immediately branded a troublemaker simply for making this point.
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
Firstly, I would check whether the journal has a policy or style guidelines to the effect of using gender-neutral pronouns, and whether the authors are native/non-native speakers of English. If, as you say, you have met one of the authors, you probably can make a strong guess at their nativity.
Case 1: Non-native speaker
Many (I would hazard a guess and say most) non-native speakers, myself included, have been taught never to use "they" in singular. In fact, we received corporal punishments at times if we did that. I learnt about this usage only after I relocated, and since then I've had to consciously convince myself to use it. Secondly, some of the non-English languages I speak, don't have or usually use gender-neutral pronouns. Although that is changing, they are far behind on the curve than English is. Hence, in the case of non-native speakers, I would probably give them a large benefit of doubt.
In this case, I suggest that you write to the editor separately. If they don't have a policy, request that they make one. If they do, explain your experience without naming names and request them to enforce it better.
Case 2: Native speaker
This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt. In this case, I would go with something like what @user100093 suggests in his answer, except I would modify the 'P. S.' section to say - "This is a relatively minor issue, but I would appreciate it if the authors don't assume the gender of the reviewers in their responses or communications". That way you have made your point without revealing your own gender, thus preserving anonymity.
As to whether the editor would actually pass on the message to the authors - who knows. But I don't believe that you will be immediately branded a troublemaker simply for making this point.
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
7
down vote
up vote
7
down vote
Firstly, I would check whether the journal has a policy or style guidelines to the effect of using gender-neutral pronouns, and whether the authors are native/non-native speakers of English. If, as you say, you have met one of the authors, you probably can make a strong guess at their nativity.
Case 1: Non-native speaker
Many (I would hazard a guess and say most) non-native speakers, myself included, have been taught never to use "they" in singular. In fact, we received corporal punishments at times if we did that. I learnt about this usage only after I relocated, and since then I've had to consciously convince myself to use it. Secondly, some of the non-English languages I speak, don't have or usually use gender-neutral pronouns. Although that is changing, they are far behind on the curve than English is. Hence, in the case of non-native speakers, I would probably give them a large benefit of doubt.
In this case, I suggest that you write to the editor separately. If they don't have a policy, request that they make one. If they do, explain your experience without naming names and request them to enforce it better.
Case 2: Native speaker
This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt. In this case, I would go with something like what @user100093 suggests in his answer, except I would modify the 'P. S.' section to say - "This is a relatively minor issue, but I would appreciate it if the authors don't assume the gender of the reviewers in their responses or communications". That way you have made your point without revealing your own gender, thus preserving anonymity.
As to whether the editor would actually pass on the message to the authors - who knows. But I don't believe that you will be immediately branded a troublemaker simply for making this point.
Firstly, I would check whether the journal has a policy or style guidelines to the effect of using gender-neutral pronouns, and whether the authors are native/non-native speakers of English. If, as you say, you have met one of the authors, you probably can make a strong guess at their nativity.
Case 1: Non-native speaker
Many (I would hazard a guess and say most) non-native speakers, myself included, have been taught never to use "they" in singular. In fact, we received corporal punishments at times if we did that. I learnt about this usage only after I relocated, and since then I've had to consciously convince myself to use it. Secondly, some of the non-English languages I speak, don't have or usually use gender-neutral pronouns. Although that is changing, they are far behind on the curve than English is. Hence, in the case of non-native speakers, I would probably give them a large benefit of doubt.
In this case, I suggest that you write to the editor separately. If they don't have a policy, request that they make one. If they do, explain your experience without naming names and request them to enforce it better.
Case 2: Native speaker
This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt. In this case, I would go with something like what @user100093 suggests in his answer, except I would modify the 'P. S.' section to say - "This is a relatively minor issue, but I would appreciate it if the authors don't assume the gender of the reviewers in their responses or communications". That way you have made your point without revealing your own gender, thus preserving anonymity.
As to whether the editor would actually pass on the message to the authors - who knows. But I don't believe that you will be immediately branded a troublemaker simply for making this point.
answered Nov 2 at 19:24
TheJack
911
911
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
add a comment |Â
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
6
6
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
Having any P.S. at all would hint that OP is a woman, since no man would add a P.S like that. ... There's basically no way to assert any of OP's characteristics without scratching away anonymity.
â Malandy
Nov 3 at 1:53
8
8
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
"This is would be a more egregious case since we can assume that the person at least knows of this usage, and there's not much room for doubt." As a native speaker, I'd disagree. While most native speakers are 'aware' of the gender-neutral 'they' and will understand it, many (especially from older generations) still dislike it, consider it grammatically incorrect, and don't use it. There is a reason your English courses taught you that this usage is incorrect. It's because many native English speakers do still consider it incorrect, even if I'd personally disagree with them.
â reirab
Nov 3 at 17:28
4
4
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
@Malandy For what it's worth, I call out every single instance of gendering I see in responses to my reviews with a note similar to TheJack's suggestion â even though they always correctly assume that I am a man. It is not appropriate for them to bring an imagined gender into things with my reviews, just as it is inappropriate with Rebecca J. Stones'.
â Mike
Nov 3 at 23:48
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
I realized a long time ago that there's very little to be done in situations like these, because regardless of what you say, they can always resort to the grammar-defense: he is an accepted pronoun in the case of gender-neutrality, so in their eyes, they're just speaking English.
It doesn't cross their mind that, hey, negro is an accepted English word as well, so maybe it would be acceptable to use that word to describe black people too, no? Of course, today, that wouldn't fly: we live in a world where that word is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, all you can do is wait until people evolve enough until the consensus changes in favor of they, and not he, as the appropiate gender-neutral pronoun. There's definitely a clear trend towards they, so it might happen sooner than you think, but, really, waiting is all you can do. Making a fuss about this is going to make people become defensive (because personal egos are more important than deep societal issues) and that isn't going to end well for you.
New contributor
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
I realized a long time ago that there's very little to be done in situations like these, because regardless of what you say, they can always resort to the grammar-defense: he is an accepted pronoun in the case of gender-neutrality, so in their eyes, they're just speaking English.
It doesn't cross their mind that, hey, negro is an accepted English word as well, so maybe it would be acceptable to use that word to describe black people too, no? Of course, today, that wouldn't fly: we live in a world where that word is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, all you can do is wait until people evolve enough until the consensus changes in favor of they, and not he, as the appropiate gender-neutral pronoun. There's definitely a clear trend towards they, so it might happen sooner than you think, but, really, waiting is all you can do. Making a fuss about this is going to make people become defensive (because personal egos are more important than deep societal issues) and that isn't going to end well for you.
New contributor
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
I realized a long time ago that there's very little to be done in situations like these, because regardless of what you say, they can always resort to the grammar-defense: he is an accepted pronoun in the case of gender-neutrality, so in their eyes, they're just speaking English.
It doesn't cross their mind that, hey, negro is an accepted English word as well, so maybe it would be acceptable to use that word to describe black people too, no? Of course, today, that wouldn't fly: we live in a world where that word is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, all you can do is wait until people evolve enough until the consensus changes in favor of they, and not he, as the appropiate gender-neutral pronoun. There's definitely a clear trend towards they, so it might happen sooner than you think, but, really, waiting is all you can do. Making a fuss about this is going to make people become defensive (because personal egos are more important than deep societal issues) and that isn't going to end well for you.
New contributor
I realized a long time ago that there's very little to be done in situations like these, because regardless of what you say, they can always resort to the grammar-defense: he is an accepted pronoun in the case of gender-neutrality, so in their eyes, they're just speaking English.
It doesn't cross their mind that, hey, negro is an accepted English word as well, so maybe it would be acceptable to use that word to describe black people too, no? Of course, today, that wouldn't fly: we live in a world where that word is no longer acceptable.
Similarly, all you can do is wait until people evolve enough until the consensus changes in favor of they, and not he, as the appropiate gender-neutral pronoun. There's definitely a clear trend towards they, so it might happen sooner than you think, but, really, waiting is all you can do. Making a fuss about this is going to make people become defensive (because personal egos are more important than deep societal issues) and that isn't going to end well for you.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Nov 4 at 15:38
SAK
663125
663125
New contributor
New contributor
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
add a comment |Â
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
2
2
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
It's not even about singular "they", which some may find awkward. A simple "he or she" would also work. But you can't do that because... grammar.
â henning
Nov 4 at 15:53
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@SAK I disagree with your conclusion. You don't avoid using the word negro because people shut up and waited for change. Why would the change have happened, except that people explained that they found it offensive? If, in the authors' eyes, "they're just speaking English", then how could they possibly realize that anyone wants that particular usage to change unless they are told?
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
@Mike You've misunderstood the answer. Let me break it down for you: in this particular context (a one-off professional, indirect correspondence with anonymous authors through a 3rd party editor), there's little you can do, and even if you tried, you'd be shut down and refuted immediately. In other contexts, you may be able to do more, in which case, my advice of just waiting obviously ceases to apply. It is in this way that change occurs: because there are certain contexts where people do (and should) speak up. But that doesn't mean you should be doing it 24/7.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
For example, writing this question which has been viewed 22.000 times has caused change, I guarantee you ... much more than would have been achieved if she had made a fuss in her particular situation.
â SAK
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
I disagree that she can't change anything directly. I (a man) always correct authors who refer to me using gender, and explain that it is not appropriate to assume gender of an anonymous reviewer. This happens to me frequently, and I have received responses from authors who apologize and suggest that they will avoid it in the future. It may well be true that the authors were pandering to me by apologizing, but what matters to me is that they likely really will avoid it in the future because a colleague has told them it is unacceptable. And the fewer people who have to face this the better.
â Mike
yesterday
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Well, to bring up a point that only seems to have been in comments...
If you don't care about your anonymity, or those whose anonymity partially depends on your anonymity, then go ahead and say you're a woman.
Else, you might have to say nothing, because by making a note about gendered pronouns, could be taken to hint that you are a woman, because a man is assumed to be less likely to bring the topic up.
Although, men do make such notes, as Mike says in his comment:
I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion.
Is this blind-bag reviewing, or not?
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
Well, to bring up a point that only seems to have been in comments...
If you don't care about your anonymity, or those whose anonymity partially depends on your anonymity, then go ahead and say you're a woman.
Else, you might have to say nothing, because by making a note about gendered pronouns, could be taken to hint that you are a woman, because a man is assumed to be less likely to bring the topic up.
Although, men do make such notes, as Mike says in his comment:
I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion.
Is this blind-bag reviewing, or not?
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
Well, to bring up a point that only seems to have been in comments...
If you don't care about your anonymity, or those whose anonymity partially depends on your anonymity, then go ahead and say you're a woman.
Else, you might have to say nothing, because by making a note about gendered pronouns, could be taken to hint that you are a woman, because a man is assumed to be less likely to bring the topic up.
Although, men do make such notes, as Mike says in his comment:
I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion.
Is this blind-bag reviewing, or not?
Well, to bring up a point that only seems to have been in comments...
If you don't care about your anonymity, or those whose anonymity partially depends on your anonymity, then go ahead and say you're a woman.
Else, you might have to say nothing, because by making a note about gendered pronouns, could be taken to hint that you are a woman, because a man is assumed to be less likely to bring the topic up.
Although, men do make such notes, as Mike says in his comment:
I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion.
Is this blind-bag reviewing, or not?
edited 18 hours ago
answered Nov 3 at 1:57
Malandy
49338
49338
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
2
2
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
1. In a sufficiently small academic community, revealing one's identity compromises the anonymity of others. 2. Pointing out usage of a gendered pronoun reveals nothing about one's own gender
â trichoplax
Nov 5 at 21:07
2
2
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
@trichoplax - How... Oh, okay, adding 1. ... On 2. ... It feels more likely that more women would find the gendered pronoun notable than men would, so pointing out the usage hints that the speaker is a woman?
â Malandy
Nov 5 at 21:27
1
1
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
I don't have statistics to say either way, but it may well be that in a field with more men than women, there are more men objecting to gendered pronouns than women. But even in a field where an objector is statistically more likely to be female, only a likelihood is being revealed, not a concrete gender. Also there are plenty of men who feel strongly about this, and plenty of women who don't care either way.
â trichoplax
2 days ago
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
As I mentioned in another comment, I (a man) always tell authors who refer to me by gender that it is inappropriate to bring an imagined gender into a technical discussion. This is just one more way in which it's a bad idea to try to divine the referee's identity by over-interpreting details in the response. In any case, what better time to try to effect change than in an anonymous setting?
â Mike
yesterday
1
1
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
@Mike - Thank you! Added to the answer. Not sure how to use the rest of your comment since it seems off-topic from the core of my answer. You do raise some good points.
â Malandy
18 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I'd like to write more or less what Dmitry Savostyanov wrote in his answer
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
but without the last part where he suggests that
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
I believe the professional thing to do in this context is just ignoring the pronoun, without any remark whatsoever.
It's curious that this question comes more or less at the same time as this one: How to react to a student proselytising during office hours? . I think the two settings are more similar than it seems at first sight. This is a context in which you should focus on content and stick to business, not try to convince the paper's author of his/her mistakes on a matter unrelated to the content of the paper, even if you believe it's for the greater good.
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
I'd like to write more or less what Dmitry Savostyanov wrote in his answer
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
but without the last part where he suggests that
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
I believe the professional thing to do in this context is just ignoring the pronoun, without any remark whatsoever.
It's curious that this question comes more or less at the same time as this one: How to react to a student proselytising during office hours? . I think the two settings are more similar than it seems at first sight. This is a context in which you should focus on content and stick to business, not try to convince the paper's author of his/her mistakes on a matter unrelated to the content of the paper, even if you believe it's for the greater good.
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
I'd like to write more or less what Dmitry Savostyanov wrote in his answer
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
but without the last part where he suggests that
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
I believe the professional thing to do in this context is just ignoring the pronoun, without any remark whatsoever.
It's curious that this question comes more or less at the same time as this one: How to react to a student proselytising during office hours? . I think the two settings are more similar than it seems at first sight. This is a context in which you should focus on content and stick to business, not try to convince the paper's author of his/her mistakes on a matter unrelated to the content of the paper, even if you believe it's for the greater good.
I'd like to write more or less what Dmitry Savostyanov wrote in his answer
It seems that the issue has nothing to do with the manuscript and hence you are not reacting with your reviewer hat on. You are considering your response based on your role as woman/feminist/activist â but not as a reviewer. You are not reviewing the paper, you are reviewing author's communicative behaviour.
but without the last part where he suggests that
As long as you make it clear that you are not commenting as as reviewer of a manuscript, I think you can make this remark to the editor.
I believe the professional thing to do in this context is just ignoring the pronoun, without any remark whatsoever.
It's curious that this question comes more or less at the same time as this one: How to react to a student proselytising during office hours? . I think the two settings are more similar than it seems at first sight. This is a context in which you should focus on content and stick to business, not try to convince the paper's author of his/her mistakes on a matter unrelated to the content of the paper, even if you believe it's for the greater good.
answered 2 days ago
Federico Poloni
24.7k1177130
24.7k1177130
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
1
1
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
It's interesting that you draw that parallel with the proselytization question, because there, everyone seems to agree that when the OP says "I don't want to be put in a similar situation again", there is some right not to be put in that situation, and so the OP should address it directly. Yet here, the OP has been put in a situation she dislikes (and likely will be again in the future), and only speaking up has any chance of changing that, but is being advised that she should not speak up. She's not the one creating this situation; the authors using a masculine pronoun are.
â Mike
yesterday
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
@Mike I am not comparing OP here to the professor in that question, I am comparing her to the student. The student tries to convince the professor of his/her mistakes in not following the cult of Cthulhu the Almighty; the fact that there are so many unbelievers is a situation he dislikes, and he believes he is acting for the greater good.
â Federico Poloni
9 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
I understood what you were trying to imply. What I am saying is that you choose to overlook the fact that the OP here did not ask to be referred to in the masculine; you're suggesting that she's starting something by responding to unprofessional behavior. Apparently the other OP had not brought up any religious beliefs whatsoever before the student started proselytizing. Similarly, this OP had not brought gender into the discussion before she was referred to with a male pronoun. In both cases, the OP has been subjected to something they find unpleasant and unprofessional.
â Mike
8 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
@Mike I think the consensus here is that the use of that pronoun is probably involuntary. It's OP who is planning to bring gender into the discussion and derailing what has been up to now a professional exchange.
â Federico Poloni
7 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I encourage you to speak up. As you suggested, it's probably fair to treat it as a minor slip-up, indicating implicit bias rather than overt bias or intent to harm âÂÂàso your response should probably treat it as such. But nothing will improve if we stay silent.
By now, this page is so full of wrong-headed arguments against responding that I feel like it would be helpful to make a list and respond to each. I'll be paraphrasing, but I think these are fair reflections of various points made elsewhere on this page.
English evolved over centuries to arrive at gender-neutral "he". English evolved in societies that were generally swamps of overt misogyny. The fact that the patriarchy has always done it this way doesn't mean it should always be done this way. Nor do modern notions of equality expunge history of its inequalities. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that "all Men are created equal", women really did not have equal rights (not to mention non-white or even just non-rich men).
There's no good alternative. Many of the comments have refuted this pretty well. Pronouns can be avoided altogether by talking about "the reviewer" or similar. Alternatively, singular "they" is actually deemed acceptable by many authorities, and will get the point across in any case.
The authors might have a different first language where default-masculine is totally standard throughout many of their language structures. That's fine, but now they're communicating in English âÂÂàand in a professional setting.
But the authors weren't even assuming your gender. That doesn't matter; it's still problematic to use "he". While ethicists will talk about intent being important for deciding whether or not an action is ethical, there are also considerations about reckless disregard for the consequences. Reckless homicide is still homicide. If they offended you by their reckless and unnecessary use of a masculine pronoun (minor though the offense may be), it was still offensive.
Not everyone can agree that what they did was problematic. That's true, just as not everyone can agree that it wasn't problematic. We fight for our own principles. If we only stood up on unanimous decisions, we would never stand up âÂÂàand there would be no point anyway.
It's too minor to bother with. As you said, it's really about your status as a full and equal member of your community âÂÂàwhich is not minor. You deserve respect.
Don't start trouble. You're not the one who started it.
An academic review isn't the appropriate venue to introduce your feelings or politics. Again, you didn't start this; the authors are the ones who acted unprofessionally by introducing some imagined gender. They communicated poorly, and it is absolutely a reviewer's job to suggest improvements and to act as the arbiter of standards in the community. Suppose they had said something that was clearly intentionally and extremely racist. Would it still be inappropriate to address the matter?
You'll harm your professional relationships. This is anonymous review. The editor you're dealing with is the only person who will know who you are, and in my experience they are professionals who understand that they need to keep things professional. The authors won't know who you are, and might just become more conscientious in their treatment of women in your field â possibly including you personally. If you can't speak up now, when can you?
You'll pierce the veil of anonymity by revealing your gender. You don't need to refer to your gender at all. I'm a man, and I always advise authors who refer to me using a gender that it's not professional. I don't recall ever mentioning my gender when I did that.
You can't change anything. In each case where I've advised authors not to use masculine pronouns for anonymous reviewers and where there's been another round of revisions (so that I saw a response from them), they've apologized and said they won't do it again. I can't say whether they took the lesson on equality to heart, but as long as their words change that was a positive outcome.
They don't deserve to be punished for your feelings. This isn't punishment; this is a very private communication, limiting the extent of any embarrassment or any other consequences they may experience. Whereas many commenters here are suggesting that their use of the masculine is not a big deal, I would also point out that your response will not be a big deal. All you're doing is giving them a tiny bit of sound advice. And this isn't just about feelings; it's about equality in the workplace.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
I encourage you to speak up. As you suggested, it's probably fair to treat it as a minor slip-up, indicating implicit bias rather than overt bias or intent to harm âÂÂàso your response should probably treat it as such. But nothing will improve if we stay silent.
By now, this page is so full of wrong-headed arguments against responding that I feel like it would be helpful to make a list and respond to each. I'll be paraphrasing, but I think these are fair reflections of various points made elsewhere on this page.
English evolved over centuries to arrive at gender-neutral "he". English evolved in societies that were generally swamps of overt misogyny. The fact that the patriarchy has always done it this way doesn't mean it should always be done this way. Nor do modern notions of equality expunge history of its inequalities. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that "all Men are created equal", women really did not have equal rights (not to mention non-white or even just non-rich men).
There's no good alternative. Many of the comments have refuted this pretty well. Pronouns can be avoided altogether by talking about "the reviewer" or similar. Alternatively, singular "they" is actually deemed acceptable by many authorities, and will get the point across in any case.
The authors might have a different first language where default-masculine is totally standard throughout many of their language structures. That's fine, but now they're communicating in English âÂÂàand in a professional setting.
But the authors weren't even assuming your gender. That doesn't matter; it's still problematic to use "he". While ethicists will talk about intent being important for deciding whether or not an action is ethical, there are also considerations about reckless disregard for the consequences. Reckless homicide is still homicide. If they offended you by their reckless and unnecessary use of a masculine pronoun (minor though the offense may be), it was still offensive.
Not everyone can agree that what they did was problematic. That's true, just as not everyone can agree that it wasn't problematic. We fight for our own principles. If we only stood up on unanimous decisions, we would never stand up âÂÂàand there would be no point anyway.
It's too minor to bother with. As you said, it's really about your status as a full and equal member of your community âÂÂàwhich is not minor. You deserve respect.
Don't start trouble. You're not the one who started it.
An academic review isn't the appropriate venue to introduce your feelings or politics. Again, you didn't start this; the authors are the ones who acted unprofessionally by introducing some imagined gender. They communicated poorly, and it is absolutely a reviewer's job to suggest improvements and to act as the arbiter of standards in the community. Suppose they had said something that was clearly intentionally and extremely racist. Would it still be inappropriate to address the matter?
You'll harm your professional relationships. This is anonymous review. The editor you're dealing with is the only person who will know who you are, and in my experience they are professionals who understand that they need to keep things professional. The authors won't know who you are, and might just become more conscientious in their treatment of women in your field â possibly including you personally. If you can't speak up now, when can you?
You'll pierce the veil of anonymity by revealing your gender. You don't need to refer to your gender at all. I'm a man, and I always advise authors who refer to me using a gender that it's not professional. I don't recall ever mentioning my gender when I did that.
You can't change anything. In each case where I've advised authors not to use masculine pronouns for anonymous reviewers and where there's been another round of revisions (so that I saw a response from them), they've apologized and said they won't do it again. I can't say whether they took the lesson on equality to heart, but as long as their words change that was a positive outcome.
They don't deserve to be punished for your feelings. This isn't punishment; this is a very private communication, limiting the extent of any embarrassment or any other consequences they may experience. Whereas many commenters here are suggesting that their use of the masculine is not a big deal, I would also point out that your response will not be a big deal. All you're doing is giving them a tiny bit of sound advice. And this isn't just about feelings; it's about equality in the workplace.
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I encourage you to speak up. As you suggested, it's probably fair to treat it as a minor slip-up, indicating implicit bias rather than overt bias or intent to harm âÂÂàso your response should probably treat it as such. But nothing will improve if we stay silent.
By now, this page is so full of wrong-headed arguments against responding that I feel like it would be helpful to make a list and respond to each. I'll be paraphrasing, but I think these are fair reflections of various points made elsewhere on this page.
English evolved over centuries to arrive at gender-neutral "he". English evolved in societies that were generally swamps of overt misogyny. The fact that the patriarchy has always done it this way doesn't mean it should always be done this way. Nor do modern notions of equality expunge history of its inequalities. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that "all Men are created equal", women really did not have equal rights (not to mention non-white or even just non-rich men).
There's no good alternative. Many of the comments have refuted this pretty well. Pronouns can be avoided altogether by talking about "the reviewer" or similar. Alternatively, singular "they" is actually deemed acceptable by many authorities, and will get the point across in any case.
The authors might have a different first language where default-masculine is totally standard throughout many of their language structures. That's fine, but now they're communicating in English âÂÂàand in a professional setting.
But the authors weren't even assuming your gender. That doesn't matter; it's still problematic to use "he". While ethicists will talk about intent being important for deciding whether or not an action is ethical, there are also considerations about reckless disregard for the consequences. Reckless homicide is still homicide. If they offended you by their reckless and unnecessary use of a masculine pronoun (minor though the offense may be), it was still offensive.
Not everyone can agree that what they did was problematic. That's true, just as not everyone can agree that it wasn't problematic. We fight for our own principles. If we only stood up on unanimous decisions, we would never stand up âÂÂàand there would be no point anyway.
It's too minor to bother with. As you said, it's really about your status as a full and equal member of your community âÂÂàwhich is not minor. You deserve respect.
Don't start trouble. You're not the one who started it.
An academic review isn't the appropriate venue to introduce your feelings or politics. Again, you didn't start this; the authors are the ones who acted unprofessionally by introducing some imagined gender. They communicated poorly, and it is absolutely a reviewer's job to suggest improvements and to act as the arbiter of standards in the community. Suppose they had said something that was clearly intentionally and extremely racist. Would it still be inappropriate to address the matter?
You'll harm your professional relationships. This is anonymous review. The editor you're dealing with is the only person who will know who you are, and in my experience they are professionals who understand that they need to keep things professional. The authors won't know who you are, and might just become more conscientious in their treatment of women in your field â possibly including you personally. If you can't speak up now, when can you?
You'll pierce the veil of anonymity by revealing your gender. You don't need to refer to your gender at all. I'm a man, and I always advise authors who refer to me using a gender that it's not professional. I don't recall ever mentioning my gender when I did that.
You can't change anything. In each case where I've advised authors not to use masculine pronouns for anonymous reviewers and where there's been another round of revisions (so that I saw a response from them), they've apologized and said they won't do it again. I can't say whether they took the lesson on equality to heart, but as long as their words change that was a positive outcome.
They don't deserve to be punished for your feelings. This isn't punishment; this is a very private communication, limiting the extent of any embarrassment or any other consequences they may experience. Whereas many commenters here are suggesting that their use of the masculine is not a big deal, I would also point out that your response will not be a big deal. All you're doing is giving them a tiny bit of sound advice. And this isn't just about feelings; it's about equality in the workplace.
I encourage you to speak up. As you suggested, it's probably fair to treat it as a minor slip-up, indicating implicit bias rather than overt bias or intent to harm âÂÂàso your response should probably treat it as such. But nothing will improve if we stay silent.
By now, this page is so full of wrong-headed arguments against responding that I feel like it would be helpful to make a list and respond to each. I'll be paraphrasing, but I think these are fair reflections of various points made elsewhere on this page.
English evolved over centuries to arrive at gender-neutral "he". English evolved in societies that were generally swamps of overt misogyny. The fact that the patriarchy has always done it this way doesn't mean it should always be done this way. Nor do modern notions of equality expunge history of its inequalities. When Thomas Jefferson wrote that "all Men are created equal", women really did not have equal rights (not to mention non-white or even just non-rich men).
There's no good alternative. Many of the comments have refuted this pretty well. Pronouns can be avoided altogether by talking about "the reviewer" or similar. Alternatively, singular "they" is actually deemed acceptable by many authorities, and will get the point across in any case.
The authors might have a different first language where default-masculine is totally standard throughout many of their language structures. That's fine, but now they're communicating in English âÂÂàand in a professional setting.
But the authors weren't even assuming your gender. That doesn't matter; it's still problematic to use "he". While ethicists will talk about intent being important for deciding whether or not an action is ethical, there are also considerations about reckless disregard for the consequences. Reckless homicide is still homicide. If they offended you by their reckless and unnecessary use of a masculine pronoun (minor though the offense may be), it was still offensive.
Not everyone can agree that what they did was problematic. That's true, just as not everyone can agree that it wasn't problematic. We fight for our own principles. If we only stood up on unanimous decisions, we would never stand up âÂÂàand there would be no point anyway.
It's too minor to bother with. As you said, it's really about your status as a full and equal member of your community âÂÂàwhich is not minor. You deserve respect.
Don't start trouble. You're not the one who started it.
An academic review isn't the appropriate venue to introduce your feelings or politics. Again, you didn't start this; the authors are the ones who acted unprofessionally by introducing some imagined gender. They communicated poorly, and it is absolutely a reviewer's job to suggest improvements and to act as the arbiter of standards in the community. Suppose they had said something that was clearly intentionally and extremely racist. Would it still be inappropriate to address the matter?
You'll harm your professional relationships. This is anonymous review. The editor you're dealing with is the only person who will know who you are, and in my experience they are professionals who understand that they need to keep things professional. The authors won't know who you are, and might just become more conscientious in their treatment of women in your field â possibly including you personally. If you can't speak up now, when can you?
You'll pierce the veil of anonymity by revealing your gender. You don't need to refer to your gender at all. I'm a man, and I always advise authors who refer to me using a gender that it's not professional. I don't recall ever mentioning my gender when I did that.
You can't change anything. In each case where I've advised authors not to use masculine pronouns for anonymous reviewers and where there's been another round of revisions (so that I saw a response from them), they've apologized and said they won't do it again. I can't say whether they took the lesson on equality to heart, but as long as their words change that was a positive outcome.
They don't deserve to be punished for your feelings. This isn't punishment; this is a very private communication, limiting the extent of any embarrassment or any other consequences they may experience. Whereas many commenters here are suggesting that their use of the masculine is not a big deal, I would also point out that your response will not be a big deal. All you're doing is giving them a tiny bit of sound advice. And this isn't just about feelings; it's about equality in the workplace.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 6 hours ago
Mike
40928
40928
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I'm going to suggest something a bit different - others have hinted at this, but really there are two activities here that are being terribly conflated and should really be addressed completely separately.
As far as this specific review goes, I would completely drop it. The issue is not relevant to the review whatsoever and there are enough unknowns here to preclude your knowing the author acted out of malice (which, in fact, it is most likely the opposite case - that they wrote this with your identity being no more than an anonymous talking head and without giving it a second thought). This is issue one.
The second issue is your desire to raise awareness about gender issues in academia generally. This is doubly so the case if we default to the assumption that the original author was not being malicious but rather just defaulting to a perfectly normal standard of language which appears to be falling out of popular favour (and which you would like to change).
Consider now the second goal and the things you might do to effectively achieve that goal. What will it achieve to write a letter to the author? The editor? Probably close to nothing, and you risk introducing confusion and uncertainty into the review process. Going straight back to the author or editor here is a high-controversy, low-impact action. You won't change many peoples' ideas and you risk exposing yourself to blowback.
If this is an issue that is important to you I would suggest that you take this up as a completely separate activity entirely disconnected from this specific review. If it's an issue with one journal, surely it must be an issue with all journals and reviewers and authors in the field. Do you want to spend time and effort changing one author's mind? Or one journal's? Or do you want to actually do something effective to promote this type of change across the field?
I feel your efforts would be better rewarded by focusing them away from this specific review - why not completely independently make contact with all of the major journals in your field? Raise it as an issue on its own and pursue it on its own merits - this turns it into a general issue rather than a specific one (which you might be seen to have a conflict of interest regarding the particular review in question).
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I'm going to suggest something a bit different - others have hinted at this, but really there are two activities here that are being terribly conflated and should really be addressed completely separately.
As far as this specific review goes, I would completely drop it. The issue is not relevant to the review whatsoever and there are enough unknowns here to preclude your knowing the author acted out of malice (which, in fact, it is most likely the opposite case - that they wrote this with your identity being no more than an anonymous talking head and without giving it a second thought). This is issue one.
The second issue is your desire to raise awareness about gender issues in academia generally. This is doubly so the case if we default to the assumption that the original author was not being malicious but rather just defaulting to a perfectly normal standard of language which appears to be falling out of popular favour (and which you would like to change).
Consider now the second goal and the things you might do to effectively achieve that goal. What will it achieve to write a letter to the author? The editor? Probably close to nothing, and you risk introducing confusion and uncertainty into the review process. Going straight back to the author or editor here is a high-controversy, low-impact action. You won't change many peoples' ideas and you risk exposing yourself to blowback.
If this is an issue that is important to you I would suggest that you take this up as a completely separate activity entirely disconnected from this specific review. If it's an issue with one journal, surely it must be an issue with all journals and reviewers and authors in the field. Do you want to spend time and effort changing one author's mind? Or one journal's? Or do you want to actually do something effective to promote this type of change across the field?
I feel your efforts would be better rewarded by focusing them away from this specific review - why not completely independently make contact with all of the major journals in your field? Raise it as an issue on its own and pursue it on its own merits - this turns it into a general issue rather than a specific one (which you might be seen to have a conflict of interest regarding the particular review in question).
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0
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I'm going to suggest something a bit different - others have hinted at this, but really there are two activities here that are being terribly conflated and should really be addressed completely separately.
As far as this specific review goes, I would completely drop it. The issue is not relevant to the review whatsoever and there are enough unknowns here to preclude your knowing the author acted out of malice (which, in fact, it is most likely the opposite case - that they wrote this with your identity being no more than an anonymous talking head and without giving it a second thought). This is issue one.
The second issue is your desire to raise awareness about gender issues in academia generally. This is doubly so the case if we default to the assumption that the original author was not being malicious but rather just defaulting to a perfectly normal standard of language which appears to be falling out of popular favour (and which you would like to change).
Consider now the second goal and the things you might do to effectively achieve that goal. What will it achieve to write a letter to the author? The editor? Probably close to nothing, and you risk introducing confusion and uncertainty into the review process. Going straight back to the author or editor here is a high-controversy, low-impact action. You won't change many peoples' ideas and you risk exposing yourself to blowback.
If this is an issue that is important to you I would suggest that you take this up as a completely separate activity entirely disconnected from this specific review. If it's an issue with one journal, surely it must be an issue with all journals and reviewers and authors in the field. Do you want to spend time and effort changing one author's mind? Or one journal's? Or do you want to actually do something effective to promote this type of change across the field?
I feel your efforts would be better rewarded by focusing them away from this specific review - why not completely independently make contact with all of the major journals in your field? Raise it as an issue on its own and pursue it on its own merits - this turns it into a general issue rather than a specific one (which you might be seen to have a conflict of interest regarding the particular review in question).
I'm going to suggest something a bit different - others have hinted at this, but really there are two activities here that are being terribly conflated and should really be addressed completely separately.
As far as this specific review goes, I would completely drop it. The issue is not relevant to the review whatsoever and there are enough unknowns here to preclude your knowing the author acted out of malice (which, in fact, it is most likely the opposite case - that they wrote this with your identity being no more than an anonymous talking head and without giving it a second thought). This is issue one.
The second issue is your desire to raise awareness about gender issues in academia generally. This is doubly so the case if we default to the assumption that the original author was not being malicious but rather just defaulting to a perfectly normal standard of language which appears to be falling out of popular favour (and which you would like to change).
Consider now the second goal and the things you might do to effectively achieve that goal. What will it achieve to write a letter to the author? The editor? Probably close to nothing, and you risk introducing confusion and uncertainty into the review process. Going straight back to the author or editor here is a high-controversy, low-impact action. You won't change many peoples' ideas and you risk exposing yourself to blowback.
If this is an issue that is important to you I would suggest that you take this up as a completely separate activity entirely disconnected from this specific review. If it's an issue with one journal, surely it must be an issue with all journals and reviewers and authors in the field. Do you want to spend time and effort changing one author's mind? Or one journal's? Or do you want to actually do something effective to promote this type of change across the field?
I feel your efforts would be better rewarded by focusing them away from this specific review - why not completely independently make contact with all of the major journals in your field? Raise it as an issue on its own and pursue it on its own merits - this turns it into a general issue rather than a specific one (which you might be seen to have a conflict of interest regarding the particular review in question).
edited 2 days ago
answered 2 days ago
J...
2,50211016
2,50211016
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The person is not necessarily assuming you are male. Similar to what you encountered, many women use "she" or "her" when the gender is unknown. Not using a pronoun in that spot may have made the sentence structure read awkwardly, and they might not be aware of the increasing use of "they" in such a case.
I have had women use "she" or "her" when writing about me when they did not know that I was male. I was annoyed for just a few seconds, until I realized that I occasionally do the same thing in reverse, and for that reason I have started using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun. But not everyone does that.
In short: They might not be assuming you are male, but they had to write something in that spot.
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The person is not necessarily assuming you are male. Similar to what you encountered, many women use "she" or "her" when the gender is unknown. Not using a pronoun in that spot may have made the sentence structure read awkwardly, and they might not be aware of the increasing use of "they" in such a case.
I have had women use "she" or "her" when writing about me when they did not know that I was male. I was annoyed for just a few seconds, until I realized that I occasionally do the same thing in reverse, and for that reason I have started using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun. But not everyone does that.
In short: They might not be assuming you are male, but they had to write something in that spot.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The person is not necessarily assuming you are male. Similar to what you encountered, many women use "she" or "her" when the gender is unknown. Not using a pronoun in that spot may have made the sentence structure read awkwardly, and they might not be aware of the increasing use of "they" in such a case.
I have had women use "she" or "her" when writing about me when they did not know that I was male. I was annoyed for just a few seconds, until I realized that I occasionally do the same thing in reverse, and for that reason I have started using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun. But not everyone does that.
In short: They might not be assuming you are male, but they had to write something in that spot.
The person is not necessarily assuming you are male. Similar to what you encountered, many women use "she" or "her" when the gender is unknown. Not using a pronoun in that spot may have made the sentence structure read awkwardly, and they might not be aware of the increasing use of "they" in such a case.
I have had women use "she" or "her" when writing about me when they did not know that I was male. I was annoyed for just a few seconds, until I realized that I occasionally do the same thing in reverse, and for that reason I have started using "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun. But not everyone does that.
In short: They might not be assuming you are male, but they had to write something in that spot.
answered yesterday
Aaron
23815
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This is an issue that is best addressed through the editor of the journal. Ultimately the best solution might be for a revision of the "Guide for Authors" noting the correct form of address (i.e., "reviewer one," "reviewer two," or "they"). A revision to the "Guide for Authors" would also allow editors more opportunity in the future to correct authors to ensure appropriate forms of address.
While the desire to address the author is understandable, I don't see how it could be done without violating any of the types of blind review:
- Single Blind - They might now know enough to tell who you are in a field with low representation.
- Double Blind - Same as single blind, plus for reasons that other answers have noted, you shouldn't be assuming their national origin.
- Triple Blind - Same as above, plus the editor now has enough information to maybe guess who you are.
Another consideration is if the author sees your feedback along with a reject notice from the editor. Depending upon their basis, they might assume that you were unduly harsh in your review because of the microaggression. It's also going to be a one-way communication which generally makes for a poor learning experience on the part of the author.
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up vote
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This is an issue that is best addressed through the editor of the journal. Ultimately the best solution might be for a revision of the "Guide for Authors" noting the correct form of address (i.e., "reviewer one," "reviewer two," or "they"). A revision to the "Guide for Authors" would also allow editors more opportunity in the future to correct authors to ensure appropriate forms of address.
While the desire to address the author is understandable, I don't see how it could be done without violating any of the types of blind review:
- Single Blind - They might now know enough to tell who you are in a field with low representation.
- Double Blind - Same as single blind, plus for reasons that other answers have noted, you shouldn't be assuming their national origin.
- Triple Blind - Same as above, plus the editor now has enough information to maybe guess who you are.
Another consideration is if the author sees your feedback along with a reject notice from the editor. Depending upon their basis, they might assume that you were unduly harsh in your review because of the microaggression. It's also going to be a one-way communication which generally makes for a poor learning experience on the part of the author.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
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up vote
0
down vote
This is an issue that is best addressed through the editor of the journal. Ultimately the best solution might be for a revision of the "Guide for Authors" noting the correct form of address (i.e., "reviewer one," "reviewer two," or "they"). A revision to the "Guide for Authors" would also allow editors more opportunity in the future to correct authors to ensure appropriate forms of address.
While the desire to address the author is understandable, I don't see how it could be done without violating any of the types of blind review:
- Single Blind - They might now know enough to tell who you are in a field with low representation.
- Double Blind - Same as single blind, plus for reasons that other answers have noted, you shouldn't be assuming their national origin.
- Triple Blind - Same as above, plus the editor now has enough information to maybe guess who you are.
Another consideration is if the author sees your feedback along with a reject notice from the editor. Depending upon their basis, they might assume that you were unduly harsh in your review because of the microaggression. It's also going to be a one-way communication which generally makes for a poor learning experience on the part of the author.
This is an issue that is best addressed through the editor of the journal. Ultimately the best solution might be for a revision of the "Guide for Authors" noting the correct form of address (i.e., "reviewer one," "reviewer two," or "they"). A revision to the "Guide for Authors" would also allow editors more opportunity in the future to correct authors to ensure appropriate forms of address.
While the desire to address the author is understandable, I don't see how it could be done without violating any of the types of blind review:
- Single Blind - They might now know enough to tell who you are in a field with low representation.
- Double Blind - Same as single blind, plus for reasons that other answers have noted, you shouldn't be assuming their national origin.
- Triple Blind - Same as above, plus the editor now has enough information to maybe guess who you are.
Another consideration is if the author sees your feedback along with a reject notice from the editor. Depending upon their basis, they might assume that you were unduly harsh in your review because of the microaggression. It's also going to be a one-way communication which generally makes for a poor learning experience on the part of the author.
edited 4 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
anonymous
1,847625
1,847625
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up vote
-1
down vote
Depending on culture the response may be male dominated and therefore the term 'he' is used mindlessly, and especially if the gender is unknown. Names don't give away gender all the time either - especially across cultures.
The term reviewer would be neutral.
There are some points of issue: Are you on a face-to-face known basis or simply on a web distance unknown basis?
If you are not on a face-to-face basis with someone then it may not be important and depending on how your gravy train works it is probably not important.
However if you are known face to face - then sure you might mention you do like to be referred to as she and not he.
In some terms let us put it this way if you are receiving work because of a 'perception' don't kill your gravy train. You KNOW who you are (or maybe not and that is the issue).
Perhaps you want to be recognized as a woman achieving, and not simply as a person achieving?
If someone is presenting an award - one likes to be referred to correctly, but if they pay me 2 million dollars and refer to me as she did an excellent job.. well I certainly did and thank you.
They may get the gender wrong but the pay and the accolade was correct. Better than $0 and saying Sally did such a wonderful job ... just missed the mark completely.
Again if I am on the web writing some code for someone and they are paying me and saying she is fantastic - well, maybe it is a typo, maybe not .. but hey I don't know them personally and maybe they feel comfortable working with a she. I am not going to tell them nor will I tell them if I am Jewish, Chinese, or whatever. I want the work and they can say man that Indian guy is doing great work...As long as they pay me and keep sending me requests for jobs...
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
2
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
 |Â
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up vote
-1
down vote
Depending on culture the response may be male dominated and therefore the term 'he' is used mindlessly, and especially if the gender is unknown. Names don't give away gender all the time either - especially across cultures.
The term reviewer would be neutral.
There are some points of issue: Are you on a face-to-face known basis or simply on a web distance unknown basis?
If you are not on a face-to-face basis with someone then it may not be important and depending on how your gravy train works it is probably not important.
However if you are known face to face - then sure you might mention you do like to be referred to as she and not he.
In some terms let us put it this way if you are receiving work because of a 'perception' don't kill your gravy train. You KNOW who you are (or maybe not and that is the issue).
Perhaps you want to be recognized as a woman achieving, and not simply as a person achieving?
If someone is presenting an award - one likes to be referred to correctly, but if they pay me 2 million dollars and refer to me as she did an excellent job.. well I certainly did and thank you.
They may get the gender wrong but the pay and the accolade was correct. Better than $0 and saying Sally did such a wonderful job ... just missed the mark completely.
Again if I am on the web writing some code for someone and they are paying me and saying she is fantastic - well, maybe it is a typo, maybe not .. but hey I don't know them personally and maybe they feel comfortable working with a she. I am not going to tell them nor will I tell them if I am Jewish, Chinese, or whatever. I want the work and they can say man that Indian guy is doing great work...As long as they pay me and keep sending me requests for jobs...
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
2
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
-1
down vote
up vote
-1
down vote
Depending on culture the response may be male dominated and therefore the term 'he' is used mindlessly, and especially if the gender is unknown. Names don't give away gender all the time either - especially across cultures.
The term reviewer would be neutral.
There are some points of issue: Are you on a face-to-face known basis or simply on a web distance unknown basis?
If you are not on a face-to-face basis with someone then it may not be important and depending on how your gravy train works it is probably not important.
However if you are known face to face - then sure you might mention you do like to be referred to as she and not he.
In some terms let us put it this way if you are receiving work because of a 'perception' don't kill your gravy train. You KNOW who you are (or maybe not and that is the issue).
Perhaps you want to be recognized as a woman achieving, and not simply as a person achieving?
If someone is presenting an award - one likes to be referred to correctly, but if they pay me 2 million dollars and refer to me as she did an excellent job.. well I certainly did and thank you.
They may get the gender wrong but the pay and the accolade was correct. Better than $0 and saying Sally did such a wonderful job ... just missed the mark completely.
Again if I am on the web writing some code for someone and they are paying me and saying she is fantastic - well, maybe it is a typo, maybe not .. but hey I don't know them personally and maybe they feel comfortable working with a she. I am not going to tell them nor will I tell them if I am Jewish, Chinese, or whatever. I want the work and they can say man that Indian guy is doing great work...As long as they pay me and keep sending me requests for jobs...
Depending on culture the response may be male dominated and therefore the term 'he' is used mindlessly, and especially if the gender is unknown. Names don't give away gender all the time either - especially across cultures.
The term reviewer would be neutral.
There are some points of issue: Are you on a face-to-face known basis or simply on a web distance unknown basis?
If you are not on a face-to-face basis with someone then it may not be important and depending on how your gravy train works it is probably not important.
However if you are known face to face - then sure you might mention you do like to be referred to as she and not he.
In some terms let us put it this way if you are receiving work because of a 'perception' don't kill your gravy train. You KNOW who you are (or maybe not and that is the issue).
Perhaps you want to be recognized as a woman achieving, and not simply as a person achieving?
If someone is presenting an award - one likes to be referred to correctly, but if they pay me 2 million dollars and refer to me as she did an excellent job.. well I certainly did and thank you.
They may get the gender wrong but the pay and the accolade was correct. Better than $0 and saying Sally did such a wonderful job ... just missed the mark completely.
Again if I am on the web writing some code for someone and they are paying me and saying she is fantastic - well, maybe it is a typo, maybe not .. but hey I don't know them personally and maybe they feel comfortable working with a she. I am not going to tell them nor will I tell them if I am Jewish, Chinese, or whatever. I want the work and they can say man that Indian guy is doing great work...As long as they pay me and keep sending me requests for jobs...
edited 19 hours ago
Peter Mortensen
30026
30026
answered Nov 4 at 13:21
Ken
1432
1432
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
2
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
2
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
5
5
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
This is a reasonable general answer about the workplace but misses the academic nuances and the specifics about the relationship between a reviewer and an editor and authors.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 13:55
3
3
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
@Marco13 reviews are supposed to be impartial and related to the work and avoid personal issues. The reviewer is supposed to stay anonymous and conversations with the editors are generally very limited/non-existent. The number of potential reviewers is limited and there is potential for backlash. If this was a colleague using the wrong gender in a meeting, it would be more general to the workplace. Finally, there is a lot of microagression and sexism in the academic workplace, so even if the question was of general interest, it seems a very good fit here.
â StrongBadâ¦
Nov 4 at 23:46
2
2
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
@StrongBad The anonymity/backlash issue looks like a valid point. But at this level of analysis, it has to be considered in similar forms in similar situations, and as such, is not specific to academia. The broader question is whether someone should complain about everything that she considers as a "microaggression". You can find this everywhere if you're actively looking for it and want to stir things up (that's what I wanted to point out by mentioning the "editress"...). Whether this sort of question and the attention does not do more harm than good? Time will tell. I'm worried.
â Marco13
Nov 5 at 0:17
2
2
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
This answer is barely coherent and doesn't suggest the answer-er even knows what peer review is.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
3
3
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
@Ken Who do you think does "editorial review"? This is a site for people to get expert answers, not guesses from people unfamiliar with academia.
â Azor Ahai
2 days ago
 |Â
show 4 more comments
up vote
-2
down vote
If the answer to the reviewer was restricted in length (based on characters), my suggestion is to ignore it.
In that case, "he" is simply one of the shortest pronouns available in English, and in length-limited texts, every character may count when struggling for including another statement relevant to the content of the paper or of the review.
That doesn't mean there are no better choices available, such as using "R" to refer to the reviewer (or "R1", "R2", ..., in the case of multiple reviewers) in a stylistically clumsy (based on current preferences, where repeated mentions of the same object are typically substituted with pronouns - this may be changing, of course), but short and gender-agnostic way.
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
If the answer to the reviewer was restricted in length (based on characters), my suggestion is to ignore it.
In that case, "he" is simply one of the shortest pronouns available in English, and in length-limited texts, every character may count when struggling for including another statement relevant to the content of the paper or of the review.
That doesn't mean there are no better choices available, such as using "R" to refer to the reviewer (or "R1", "R2", ..., in the case of multiple reviewers) in a stylistically clumsy (based on current preferences, where repeated mentions of the same object are typically substituted with pronouns - this may be changing, of course), but short and gender-agnostic way.
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
-2
down vote
up vote
-2
down vote
If the answer to the reviewer was restricted in length (based on characters), my suggestion is to ignore it.
In that case, "he" is simply one of the shortest pronouns available in English, and in length-limited texts, every character may count when struggling for including another statement relevant to the content of the paper or of the review.
That doesn't mean there are no better choices available, such as using "R" to refer to the reviewer (or "R1", "R2", ..., in the case of multiple reviewers) in a stylistically clumsy (based on current preferences, where repeated mentions of the same object are typically substituted with pronouns - this may be changing, of course), but short and gender-agnostic way.
If the answer to the reviewer was restricted in length (based on characters), my suggestion is to ignore it.
In that case, "he" is simply one of the shortest pronouns available in English, and in length-limited texts, every character may count when struggling for including another statement relevant to the content of the paper or of the review.
That doesn't mean there are no better choices available, such as using "R" to refer to the reviewer (or "R1", "R2", ..., in the case of multiple reviewers) in a stylistically clumsy (based on current preferences, where repeated mentions of the same object are typically substituted with pronouns - this may be changing, of course), but short and gender-agnostic way.
answered yesterday
O. R. Mapper
16k33474
16k33474
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
Could any of the downvoters explain what is wrong with this answer, please?
â O. R. Mapper
10 hours ago
add a comment |Â
protected by eykanal⦠Nov 2 at 15:19
Thank you for your interest in this question.
Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).
Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?
8
It would be good, when you could add to the question if you review papers in a field with a high awareness of gendering rules (e.g. gender studies, linguistics, or similar), where the authors could expect you to notice a gender-neutral vs. a genderless pronoun or if you are reviewing in a field, which is not related to such fine distinctitions in formulations. In the first case you can assume that somebody though about this and chose to assume your gender. In the second case there is probably nothing there to worry about.
â allo
Nov 4 at 19:34
23
I'm not planning on touching this question until after it drops off the Hot Network Questions list (related meta.SE post). Some (now-deleted) responses have been ad hominem.
â Rebecca J. Stones
Nov 5 at 0:27
6
We've deleted an awful lot of off-topic and ad hominem comments. Please, folks, only use comments to ask for clarifying remarks on the question. Off-topic and/or otherwise inappropriate comments will be deleted without warning.
â eykanalâ¦
Nov 5 at 15:20
6
I'm trying to make this as suggestion-for-improvement-y as possible: Many people have pointed out either a) they were taught that "he" is a gender-neutral pronoun, or b) it is gender-neutral in their dialect, or might be for an L2 speaker. Obviously, "he" is not gender-neutral in your dialect (as with mine). To head this off, I suggest you expand on why this use of "he" is inappropriate, rather than taking it prima facie. Perhaps some people might learn something about the situation they hadn't considered.
â Azor Ahai
yesterday
9
In your ideal world, what should they have written? "His or her concerns"? "His" half the times, "her" the other half? "Their"? Avoid any pronoun, e. g. like "about the reviewer and the reviewer's concerns"? This is a suggestion for improvement, by the way: it's not quite clear what you think is wrong if you don't say what you think would've been right.
â Headcrab
yesterday